Digital code locks on fire exit from public building.

[Rocha]

I am involved in a building in the North West, which incorportaes a number of pubs and clubs, all of which are stand alone tenants (therefore they have independent fire alarm systems etc - not linked).  The alternative means of escape for these tenants is via a set of fire exit doors, which lead into an internal escape stair.  The set of fire exit doors are installed with a digital code lock and green break glass to prevent unauthorised access to the internal stair, as this also houses the site office and mains intake room.  Therefore a certain level of security is needed.

The implications of reducing security is that this internal stair can be accessed by the public for drugs, beating up, falling down the stairs when drunk etc.  The site is also unmanned, therefore there is no control on site.

The local fire officer has requested that the digital lock to the fire exit doors be removed due to the nature of persons likley to escape during a fire (i.e drunk and tired etc) and is requiring an alternative means of security to act as the primary means of opening, with the green break glass the fail safe.  

It is not possible to link to the fire alarm, as there is no central or linked system, push bars etc will allow uncontrolled access, introducing serious health and safety implications.  The use of cctv, local alrms etc are of no use as there is no one on site to attend.  He will not accept the use of redlam bolts, turn bolts with breakable covers etc either.

The best I have come up with is to replace the digital code lock with an emergency release push button next to the green break glass, installed with a clear lifting cover, which will be far less conspicous than push bars etc.  Although the levels of security are still reduced.

I would appreciate any other ideas, as I am struggling.

Rocha

[Tom W]

Could you use something like http://www.safelincs.co.uk/product.php?xProd=354&xSec=87&fdb=true

[nearlythere]

I am involved in a building in the North West, which incorportaes a number of pubs and clubs, all of which are stand alone tenants (therefore they have independent fire alarm systems etc - not linked).  The alternative means of escape for these tenants is via a set of fire exit doors, which lead into an internal escape stair.  The set of fire exit doors are installed with a digital code lock and green break glass to prevent unauthorised access to the internal stair, as this also houses the site office and mains intake room.  Therefore a certain level of security is needed.

The implications of reducing security is that this internal stair can be accessed by the public for drugs, beating up, falling down the stairs when drunk etc.  The site is also unmanned, therefore there is no control on site.

The local fire officer has requested that the digital lock to the fire exit doors be removed due to the nature of persons likley to escape during a fire (i.e drunk and tired etc) and is requiring an alternative means of security to act as the primary means of opening, with the green break glass the fail safe.  

It is not possible to link to the fire alarm, as there is no central or linked system, push bars etc will allow uncontrolled access, introducing serious health and safety implications.  The use of cctv, local alrms etc are of no use as there is no one on site to attend.  He will not accept the use of redlam bolts, turn bolts with breakable covers etc either.

The best I have come up with is to replace the digital code lock with an emergency release push button next to the green break glass, installed with a clear lifting cover, which will be far less conspicous than push bars etc.  Although the levels of security are still reduced.

I would appreciate any other ideas, as I am struggling.

Rocha

Firstly it has to be established as to why they have independant fire alarm systems. Is it because they are all seperate buildings? If the tennents share an escape route then the building should be covered by one fire alarm system.

Secondly, am I reading that the use of the areas concerned where escape is required from via these secured doors is for the patrons?

Thirdly, am I reading that the alternative escapes routes are required?

If the escape routes are required and for members of the public and there is a security problem a most likely solution would be one which involves security staff. Fire Services do not like fiddly bits for the public especially where numbers are high and persons could be in varying states of intoxication. The Station Fire comes immediately to mind.

[afterburner]

suggestion: - fit the doors with an 'out of frame alarm' which creates an indication to perons in control of the pub / club the door has been opened. Unfortunately it needs staff to be available to the out of frame alarm. Further, if the doors were self closing and fitted with push pad latching device anyone leaving would not be able to return by this route (big danger of door wedging creeping in!)
It seems complaince with one set of enforcement rules is impacting poorly on compliance with others. however, having not seen the premises it would be wrong to assume the Inspecting Officer has been over zealous or is unsympathetic.

[Rocha]

The escape route from the tenants demise to the mentioned fire exit doors is mainly external with only the internal stair area behind the fire exit doors enclosed.

The tenants are sepertaed by a minimum of 2 hour fire resisting construction, hence their independent fire alarm systems.

With respect to fitting alarms, there is no security/landlords staff on site and the tenants (pubs and clubs) cannot be relied upon to answer the alarm and will probably not be able to hear it due to loud music and the public etc.

[nearlythere]

The escape route from the tenants demise to the mentioned fire exit doors is mainly external with only the internal stair area behind the fire exit doors enclosed.

The tenants are sepertaed by a minimum of 2 hour fire resisting construction, hence their independent fire alarm systems.

With respect to fitting alarms, there is no security/landlords staff on site and the tenants (pubs and clubs) cannot be relied upon to answer the alarm and will probably not be able to hear it due to loud music and the public etc.

The point is Rocha the tenants (responsible persons) are responsible for ensuring the safety of their staff and patrons (relevant persons) and that in the event of a fire all occupants are evacuated from the premises as quickly as possible. A suitable means must be put in place so that staff and patrons are aware of a fire in the building be it with audible and visual alarms incorporating a music cut off facilities.
Is this also a multistorey building with tenents on different storeys having independant fire alarm systems?
I think I am getting a little confused. What has the absence of security/landlords staff got to do with fitting alarms and what alarm do the tenants have to answer?

[Rocha]

Sorry for not being more clear.  The site consists of 5 pub/club tenants on ground and lower ground floors.  The fire exit doors are at lower ground and lead to the internal stair up to ground level.  The fire exit doors provide exit from a canal boardwalk area at lower ground, which the tenants use when the weather is nice.

The alarm would be a local audible alarm, which would sound when the exit doors are opened (out of frame alarm), nothing to do with the fire alarm system.  As I mentioned these would serve little purpose as there is no landlords/security on site to attend to the doors if opened.
My concern is to provide the same level of security as the digital code lock installed to the fire exit doors does (requested to be removed by the local fire officer), whilst allowing safe use of the fire exit doors by members of the public from the boardwalk area during an evacuation.

[nearlythere]

Sorry for not being more clear.  The site consists of 5 pub/club tenants on ground and lower ground floors.  The fire exit doors are at lower ground and lead to the internal stair up to ground level.  The fire exit doors provide exit from a canal boardwalk area at lower ground, which the tenants use when the weather is nice.

The alarm would be a local audible alarm, which would sound when the exit doors are opened (out of frame alarm), nothing to do with the fire alarm system.  As I mentioned these would serve little purpose as there is no landlords/security on site to attend to the doors if opened.
My concern is to provide the same level of security as the digital code lock installed to the fire exit doors does (requested to be removed by the local fire officer), whilst allowing safe use of the fire exit doors by members of the public from the boardwalk area during an evacuation.

I really do not think that you would get away with anything other than a manual panic latch device. I don't think any Service would be happy with anything less in this type of situation. It may very well mean that in order to ensure security the doors would have to be manned.
Is your involment in the building as a tenant or owner?

[Rocha]

I am acting on behalf of the manging agents and have been asked to comment on the situation and see if a solution can be resolved.

[nearlythere]

I am acting on behalf of the manging agents and have been asked to comment on the situation and see if a solution can be resolved.

I had been a Inspecting Officer for many, many moons until this year when I found a tunnel and escaped and know that my former employer was of the view that funny door locks, music and lots of merry people were not compatible for very obvious reasons.
This is an area where the only solution is by using security staff. Certainly for offices and possibly small shops you could techno-manage this but for places of assembly like you have I would say no.
However, others may well disagree.
I hope your managing agents are not looking for the cheapest resolution?