BS5266 emergency lighting

[lingmoor]

I haven't got a copy of BS 5266 to hand can anyone confirm that it states the following

Escape lighting must

Indicate the escape routes
Illuminate these escape routes
Illuminate fire alarm call points and fire fighting equipment.

I have been contacted by an electrician friend of mine who says he is working at a single storey smallish premises(15x15m) which does not have emergency lighting...and seeing they are open til 8 at night with no borrowed light the new owner wants to install it because it was flagged up in his FRA that he needs emergency lighting.

The electrician says that the guy wants a cheap option of a couple of lights over the exits and one to illuminate the floor area but he says this will not illuminate the FFE and there is a small loo area that also wont be covered...he therefore wont sign it off as conforming to BS 5266 and wants his client to sign a form saying that he has accepted this

[kurnal]

Yes it does but it says it in different terms. It refers to "Points of Emphasis"

 You should also see BSEN1838 1999.

There are many free guides to emergency and escape lighting available - can be found through google.

As for the loo- how big is it, is it a disabled loo and what is the use of the building- it may not warrant lighting.

Sounds like your electrician friend needs to buy the BS and read what it says. Oh- and make sure whatever he installs is responsive to local lighting subcircuit failure.

[lingmoor]

I'm not sure of the size of the loo...just said it was small....off memory isn't it over 8sqm when EL is needed?

[kurnal]

Yup. And disabled loos.

[nearlythere]

I haven't got a copy of BS 5266 to hand can anyone confirm that it states the following

Escape lighting must

Indicate the escape routes
Illuminate these escape routes
Illuminate fire alarm call points and fire fighting equipment.

I have been contacted by an electrician friend of mine who says he is working at a single storey smallish premises(15x15m) which does not have emergency lighting...and seeing they are open til 8 at night with no borrowed light the new owner wants to install it because it was flagged up in his FRA that he needs emergency lighting.

The electrician says that the guy wants a cheap option of a couple of lights over the exits and one to illuminate the floor area but he says this will not illuminate the FFE and there is a small loo area that also wont be covered...he therefore wont sign it off as conforming to BS 5266 and wants his client to sign a form saying that he has accepted this

Depends on how the FRA worded the emergency lighting bit. If it asked for emergency lighting to be installed to BS5266 Pt1 then you may not need to install very much if any at all.
How is it worded?

[lingmoor]

Depends on how the FRA worded the emergency lighting bit. If it asked for emergency lighting to be installed to BS5266 Pt1 then you may not need to install very much if any at all.
How is it worded?

I don't know the wording mate...it was just a quick call from a friend who knew I was in the business...I should have told him to get hold of the original risk assessor!

I would however want a premises that operated in the evening and had no borrowed lighting to have EL installed

[wee brian]

I suppose there is an argument that an el fitting over the alarm panel doesn't really contribute to anybodies safety. Its just a good idea.

[lingmoor]

That's a good arguement wee brian and I suppose its up to the FRA to work this out...On most occasions I would suggest the priority would be to evacuate...obviously on some occasions to stop a small fire getting bigger the FFE would be used.. after all that's what it's there for

But this electrician is saying because the FRA says it has to conform to BS 5266 then he is saying it should have the whole shooting match

[nearlythere]

But this electrician is saying because the FRA says it has to conform to BS 5266 then he is saying it should have the whole shooting match

Can't say as I agree with that interpretation lingmoor. Conforming with BS5266 Pt1 does not mean safety lighting has to be installed. The BS implies that where safety lighting is recommended it should be installed in accordance with it. Not putting a safety light in a WC of less of 8sqM still means that the WC conforms to BS5266 Pt1 because BS5266 Pt1 says that it is not required.

[nearlythere]

I haven't got a copy of BS 5266 to hand can anyone confirm that it states the following

Escape lighting must

Indicate the escape routes
Illuminate these escape routes
Illuminate fire alarm call points and fire fighting equipment.

I have been contacted by an electrician friend of mine who says he is working at a single storey smallish premises(15x15m) which does not have emergency lighting...and seeing they are open til 8 at night with no borrowed light the new owner wants to install it because it was flagged up in his FRA that he needs emergency lighting.

The electrician says that the guy wants a cheap option of a couple of lights over the exits and one to illuminate the floor area but he says this will not illuminate the FFE and there is a small loo area that also wont be covered...he therefore wont sign it off as conforming to BS 5266 and wants his client to sign a form saying that he has accepted this

What does HM Gov's Risk Assessment guide say about it?

[wee brian]

Who cares?

If you ask a sparky to install something to a standard then that's what he will do.

Its not his job to decide what is or isnt needed  - thats what the FRA is for.

[nearlythere]

Who cares?

If you ask a sparky to install something to a standard then that's what he will do.

Its not his job to decide what is or isnt needed  - thats what the FRA is for.

Thats my point WB. Making general statements in a FRA like "install emergency lighting to BS5266 Pt1" is a licence to fleece people because of the way it is interpreted by RPs and installers. The level of safety lighting needed in a less than 8sqM WC is nil so therefore it conforms to BS5266 Pt1.

No its not his job to do that but he and the Assessor are responsible for ensuring that only what is neccessary under the circumstances is installed. Any more is a fleecing.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Yup. And disabled loos.

Recently been challenged by an Approved Inspector when I suggested that the disabled loo needed escape lighting. He is adamant that ADB doesn’t require it and BS 5266 doesn’t recommend it. The only reference I’ve found is in the 'Good Loo Guide' (honestly it does exist) which says consider secondary lighting.

[The Colonel]

Dave

If the toilet accomodation is windowless then it isn ADB Table 9 page 59

[kurnal]

Colonel
The footnote to table 9 you refer to is not in the online edition- are you working to a printed copy? The clause you refer to did of course used to be in the 2000 edtion for sure.

See also  BS5266 para 6.8.5. ( 1999 edition- not sure if the 2005 edition is exactly the same). Worth also checking the ACOP to the workplace (HSW) Regs.
BS 8300 and Approved document M are very specific about the need for a clearly visible emergency alarm cord but dont mention emergency or escape lighting.  BS8300 and also refers to the need for "Back up lighting " ( para 12.4.9)  and elsewhere refers to the CIBSE guide.
Codes apart, From a fire risk assessment viewpoint a disabled toilet without EL can be a higher hazard than a standard toilet without EL - for non ambulant users who have to wheel themselves in. find and apply the chair brake, find the support bars, lower the support bars, transfer themself from chair to loo, then reverse the progress. Now if the lights fail and they cant  see they have an alarm cord to pull- but if theres no lights they cant see where that is either.