Getting the Fire Risk Assessment message over

[lingmoor]

Chris

The question was who would check a fire risk assessment to see if it was suitable and sufficient...that is the duty of the fire authority...which was my answer...simple really

Whether they get round to checking them all, I doubt very much in the next few years...when I was in the job the rolling program at the time was to look at high risk premises first...ie sleeping risk etc

The insurance angle was an observation, a question to the forum to get views....it seems like its touched a nerve

don't get your insurance man knickers in a twist over it lad

Ps I don't think it's that bad an idea to be honest


dons tin hat and dives for cover

[Tom Sutton]

If insurance companies give RP's no choice but to do a FRA then RP could Google for one of those online check boxes FRA’s who would say it was suitable and sufficient

The Fire Authority

Who in the FRS is going to do the auditing the operational personnel are up to their eyeballs in CFS the fire safety departments have been decimated and it’s debateable if they are meeting their obligations to high risk premises. The resources would just not be sufficient I would imagine.

[lingmoor]

Which is why I said this mate

"Whether they get round to checking them all, I doubt very much in the next few years."

My old department that I went to visit last week have recruited additional staff from those previously pensioned off and have a couple of 'civilians' who they are training up

[messy]

I would be very anxious about using Insurance companies to effectively 'police' the FSO.

Firstly, the Order is soley about life protection, whereas Insurance companies remit go much further to protecting property, so I don't think they would approach the issue from the same direction.

Also by using a private company to indirectly enforce UK legislation, not only is the privatisation by the back door, but gives some of the more dodgy salespeople more clout to abuse their position and make loads more bucks!.

The financial industry is a profit making business and is littered with dodgy sales practises (ie Mis-selling endowment mortgages) and dodgy salesmen, so let's keep fire safety legislation away from them.

[Chris Houston]

it seems like its touched a nerve

don't get your insurance man knickers in a twist over it lad

No nerves have been touched and no knickers are twisted.

[lingmoor]

Insurance companies not paying out without an FRA in place

Thats a 'No' then from the majority

ok the no's have it

on another note

messy

"Firstly, the Order is soley about life protection"

Do you advise the client with reference to arson at night when the premises are closed? ie locking wheelie bins, not to place them against the building and closing windows etc

I do...all part of the service

[kurnal]

I would be very anxious about using Insurance companies to effectively 'police' the FSO.

Firstly, the Order is soley about life protection, whereas Insurance companies remit go much further to protecting property, so I don't think they would approach the issue from the same direction.

Also by using a private company to indirectly enforce UK legislation, not only is the privatisation by the back door, but gives some of the more dodgy salespeople more clout to abuse their position and make loads more bucks!.

The financial industry is a profit making business and is littered with dodgy sales practises (ie Mis-selling endowment mortgages) and dodgy salesmen, so let's keep fire safety legislation away from them.

Across the whole spectrum of Health and Safety, the Insurance Companies play a huge part in the maintenance of good standards and the promotion of safe practices and this is widely recognised- they have the huge financial lever and become effective regulators by weighting the premium offered to an organisation according to its fire safety or general safety record. This can be megabucks. One of my clients has just had their premium halved as a result of several very positive insurance audit visits.

Whilst their main focus is on protection of assets there is a direct  knock on effect to life safety as a result of fire prevention and protection measures

[Big T]

I think the only thing you could do as an insurer is ask if a FRA has been carried out when arranging the renewal of a policy, if they say yes then you are in a position to not pay out if it isn't (just like motor insurance and points etc), getting the the insurer to interrogate the FRA's suitability would be prohibitive and wholely innapropriate.

I can't get any fire brigade that would review a fire risk assessment as they are all so flipping scared of saying "that seems fine"
They tend to say "It's up to you" "It's your residual risk, not ours" etc etc.

Until they turn up on your door to do an audit with their other hat on. Then it's all "your FRA is pants" "Your all going to die" "I'm telling the magistrate of you" "see you in court scum bag" etc.

[Chris Houston]

I think the only thing you could do as an insurer is ask if a FRA has been carried out when arranging the renewal of a policy, if they say yes then you are in a position to not pay out if it isn't (just like motor insurance and points etc), getting the the insurer to interrogate the FRA's suitability would be prohibitive and wholely innapropriate.

So I'll just try and talk you through how this would work for the client that I work with at the moment.  They have about 1,400 sites in the UK all of which are occupied, mostly by different tenants.  Let's say 3 insurance companies quote for the busines at each renewal.  

No wait, I won't even begin, it is simply impossible for them to get all their tenants to do this and even if they did, do you think the insurers would say "yes, we will insure you subject to these being OK and then 1 month later concluding that 3 were not OK and then the policy being void and them retendering the insurance program, no no no no.  It just is IMPOSSIBLE to imagine.

[Tom Sutton]

I can't get any fire brigade that would review a fire risk assessment as they are all so flipping scared of saying "that seems fine"
They tend to say "It's up to you" "It's your residual risk, not ours" etc etc.

I do not for a moment think that FRS are "flipping scared" its a matter of resources if they agree to review fire risk assessments then they would be inundated with requests and they just wouldn’t be able to cope.

[lingmoor]

I think the only thing you could do as an insurer is ask if a FRA has been carried out when arranging the renewal of a policy, if they say yes then you are in a position to not pay out if it isn't (just like motor insurance and points etc), getting the the insurer to interrogate the FRA's suitability would be prohibitive and wholely innapropriate.

The first bit is what I meant...the second bit most certainly isn't

But I have to bow to the knowledge of the inside man as to whether it's doable (is that a word?) or not