fire regs for self catering

[pheonix]

Hi,
I have a large 3 storey victorian town house in north kent.  I would like to rent out my semi sbasement flat as for short let stays for corporate/private guests on a self catering basis.  The flat is not self contained, it is linked to the ground floor by a staircase which has a door to the fist floor landing at the top of the stairs - this door can be locked to separate our living space on the upper 2 floors.  The flat will eventually consist of 1bedroom, sitting room, kitchen diner, bathroom and w.c.  At basement level there is a front door at ground level and a back door with steep stone stairs leading to the garden.  The flat is in the process of being gutted, re-wired, damp-proofed etc.  
how much of the fire reg legislation will i need to comply to given that the accomodation will be contained to the basement and will only cater for a maximim of two guests at a time?.

Will the fire regs have to extend to the rest of the house if no guests are accomodated there?

In terms of emergency exits, because we have a domestic set up the external doors will always need to remain locked, is this a problem?

Who could I get information from locally? I'm wondering if it would be worth getting some on site advise before we plan our electrics etc.

Thanks, in advance for any advise you can offer.

[Chris Houston]

James,

Please don't post duplicate posts on 3 different sub forums.  1 is sufficient.  Fire Safety is the correct one for this.

[nearlythere]

Hi,
I have a large 3 storey victorian town house in north kent.  I would like to rent out my semi sbasement flat as for short let stays for corporate/private guests on a self catering basis.  The flat is not self contained, it is linked to the ground floor by a staircase which has a door to the fist floor landing at the top of the stairs - this door can be locked to separate our living space on the upper 2 floors.  The flat will eventually consist of 1bedroom, sitting room, kitchen diner, bathroom and w.c.  At basement level there is a front door at ground level and a back door with steep stone stairs leading to the garden.  The flat is in the process of being gutted, re-wired, damp-proofed etc.  
how much of the fire reg legislation will i need to comply to given that the accomodation will be contained to the basement and will only cater for a maximim of two guests at a time?.

Will the fire regs have to extend to the rest of the house if no guests are accomodated there?

In terms of emergency exits, because we have a domestic set up the external doors will always need to remain locked, is this a problem?

Who could I get information from locally? I'm wondering if it would be worth getting some on site advise before we plan our electrics etc.

Thanks, in advance for any advise you can offer.

Any Regulations and a Fire Risk Assessment will generally apply to the guest area as the remainder of the house is a private dwelling and in your case, as the basement has independant access, this will be in your favour. I take it the main entrance to the flat will not be via the staircase from the ground floor.
What do you mean about locked external doors? Do you mean locked as in secure from outside but openable from inside, or locked from both sides. In general a door which is required for escape purposes should be easily openable for that purpose? Easily openable does not mean without locks but locks provided should be easily operable without the use of a key, from the inside. Escape is normally from the inside to out.
You presumably are liaising with Building Control and they will keep you right at this stage.

[pheonix]

very sorry for duplicate posts, am a first time forum user and you have a rather large index which i shoud have checked out properly first, i hope i am on the right track now.

Thanks so much for the reply.   you are correct in assuming that the flat had it's own separate entrance at ground level. The flat has a normal front door which can be opened without a key from the inside but the back door would have to be opened with a key in order to exit, is this a problem?

[nearlythere]

very sorry for duplicate posts, am a first time forum user and you have a rather large index which i shoud have checked out properly first, i hope i am on the right track now.

Thanks so much for the reply.   you are correct in assuming that the flat had it's own separate entrance at ground level. The flat has a normal front door which can be opened without a key from the inside but the back door would have to be opened with a key in order to exit, is this a problem?

It depends very much on the layout of the flat and whether the back door is required for escape purposes or not.

You have not mentioned Building Control since I introduced it into the issue. Have you submitted plans to them for their approval?

[pheonix]

not yet, we are are still at the talking abour it stage at the moment.  Obviously we will need to comply to building regs once we get started on the work.

[nearlythere]

not yet, we are are still at the talking abour it stage at the moment.  Obviously we will need to comply to building regs once we get started on the work.

By going through BC you will not be able to go wrong.
Can't really say very much more at this time Pheonix other than when completed you (or someone on your behalf) will have to carry out a Fire Risk Assessment.
Go to the following link.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/firesafetyrisk4

Good luck

[Eggcustard]

I would not be so sure that the FSO applies. A self contained flat (potentially) occuppied as a private dwelling? Don't think so..

[Izan FSO]

I would not be so sure that the FSO applies. A self contained flat (potentially) occuppied as a private dwelling? Don't think so..

Eggcustard (great name by the way) yes the FSO does apply, it is for rent as "short let stays for corporate/private guests on a self catering basis" this means that it is not their primary residence (the address they have on their passport / driving license) therefore they are relevant persons the FSO applies.

[nearlythere]

I would not be so sure that the FSO applies. A self contained flat (potentially) occuppied as a private dwelling? Don't think so..

Eggcustard (great name by the way) yes the FSO does apply, it is for rent as "short let stays for corporate/private guests on a self catering basis" this means that it is not their primary residence (the address they have on their passport / driving license) therefore they are relevant persons the FSO applies.

Hi Izan
Are you F&R? Interested to know why you use that criteria to determine a persons residential status?

[pheonix]

the flat is part of our primary residence, we have a 3 storey house this is the basement floor which is still connected to the rest of the house by a stariway with a door at the top, it does not have separate services i.e. water/ electrics.  what i need to establish is weather it's worth going to the trouble of all the exra expence in order to rent it out, at the end of the day it's never going to be a huge source of income.  this is why i am trying to get an idea of the extras we will need such as alarms, fire doors etc that i wouldn't need to have if i wasn't thinking of renting.  I guess this is a universal dilema.

[CivvyFSO]

Phoenix

First impressions are:

The rear door would probably need something other than a key for escape purposes.
There would have to be reasonable separation between you and the flat below. (60 minutes.) This is to protect you and your family from a fire in the flat.
An alarm system would be required in the flat. This is to protect the occupants of the flat.
If the bedrooms are inner rooms then the BCO may require window escapes.
If a fire in the flat could affect you above then you may need to be linked to the flats alarm system.
A fire risk assessment would need to be done, and a system of maintenance adhered to, possibly extinguishers supplied. (A fire blanket may suffice)

Look at it this way: You need to protect yourself and your familiy from a fire in the flat. (Because you become relevant persons under the RRO), You also need to look after the safety of the occupiers in the flat. (Protect them from themselves)

[pheonix]

yes i absolutely agree, may also use as a granny flat in furture for aged parents, thanks everyone for this very useful advise at least i know what we're potentially looking at.  we do though have the advantage of starting from scratch with electrics/ alarms etc. which is why if we are thinking of renting we need to get things right from the start.  many thanks once again.

[Eggcustard]

Nearlythere, I beg to differ...Set aside HMO issues relating to occupancy, if the flat is self contained, independent access egress etc and if it is occupied as a private dwelling then opinion is that the FSO does not apply. I would suggest to Phoenix to ask the opinion of his local F&RS prior to carrying out any work required by a FRA. Many city flats are rented out these days as short term lets, Would a FRA be required, don't think so. I would be interested to hear other views on this as the the FSO is not  particularly explicit in this area. No case law as of yet. Sleeping Risks guide suggests it applies to these premises but more likely only to common areas.

[Eggcustard]

Sorry nearlythere, I meant to address Izan FSO's comments