PAS 999: The latest

[wee brian]

Colin

Cant find it on BS-INLINE. Is there a problem ?

Brian

[Ken Taylor]

£99! I expected at least £999 from the BSI.

Seriously, I wonder how many will decide to spend that sort of money for guidance on fire risk assessment - or even whether they will be aware of its existence.

So, what is being done to advertise it, Colin and is it worth getting?

[colin todd]

Brian, Because it is a PAS it will not be downloadable from any of the subscription sites at which you can download BSs. Als you need to buy it. If ODPM will not buy it for you let me know . We have some copies we got free.
Ken, Advertising is down to BSI, but obviously they are keen to sell it and are open to ideas, which I will happily pass on. As to whether it is any good, it is not for me to say. I wrote it, albeit that it then went out to a number of organizations for comment and a working group gave detailed consideration to the comments, agreeing changes with us/ BSI as appropriate.

[wee brian]

Colin

There are 89 PAS documents on the BS ONLINE system. But I guess BSI sees this as a good earner. I don't blame them for this, we all have to earn a crust, but its irritating when you pay big bucks for online access.

I suppose when you consider that unlike the standards that get written for free by committee members, and then get sold at £100+. PAS 79 is a real snip.

[colin todd]

Brian, I think that, in the case of PAS 79, BSi see it a bit like a text book, and you would not find the books they publish online. But if you have a prob getting a copy let me know.

[fireguest]

WoW!  it must be a hefty text book, how many pages does it run to ?

On a serious note, I must concurr with the previous comment, my organisation pays several thousands of pounds a year in subscriptions for access to BS and other health and safety documentation so quite understandably we are feeling just a tad p****d off !

[small businessman]

I for one wont be buying it - £99 is way to much for a small business like mine to afford - and after all it has been written in the main by a consultant on fire safety who is only interested in making money for himself and not small businesses.

I for one will wait for the ODPM guidance on the RRO - I understand I will be able to download it - Free.

[colin todd]

78 pages. We pay several thousands too, but we do not expect to get things like books , but in any case its BSI's decision and not for me to defend. I doubt whether a small businessman really looks at Firenet, so I assume that wee smally is simply someone with an axe to grind. I am sure you are doing a fine job with your existing FRA in any case.

[Ken Taylor]

Thanks, Colin. BSI need to advertise this type of publication through the HSE website, health and safety journals and professional bodies such as IOSH and IIRSM as well as the fire media.

All BSI publications are expensive but I feel that there should be public availability or, at least subsidy for this type.

[colin todd]

Its a good point, Ken, which I shall pass on to BSI. (no pun intended). You would need to talk to ODPM about subsidies, as its their legislation, which they failed to support with adequate guidance, that BSI are endeavouring to assist people with, by publishing a guidance document. Unfortunately, BSI are not adequately finded to take on projects like this as a charitable gesture.

[puzzled]

No adequate guidance? - I use "Fire safety an employers guide" which came out at the time of the Amending regs in 99 - published by the HOme Office. Not the ODPM who didnt exist when the last law came out so get your facts right.

If its so poor - as you say Colin- then why has it sold so many copies?

Would it be because you werent invited to write it or something?

[Ken Taylor]

'Fire Safety: An Employers Guide' has been of use, 'Puzzled' but it doesn't tell us what a fire safety risk assessment looks like, the extent of what factors should be included or how far it should go. So we get risk assessments that vary from a subjective opinion, through a ticked check-list to (rarely?) a scientific evaluation of the fire performance of the elements of structure with details of all plant, machinery and equipment, emergency procedures and drawings showing the location of all fire protection and extinguishment systems and equipment. What one fire officer says is adequate another criticises or rejects, etc. A clear standard to which fire risk assessments can be tested should assist in describing what is needed and facilitating some measure of uniformity of approach.

[Peter]

Ken "What one fire officer says is adequate another criticises or rejects, etc." - If the doccument is £99, and not available on line, it will be a long time before it is seen out and about on the FSO's desk.
Put that together with Brigades not funding Morton courses so no trickle down of info. from the centre - I foresee little impact for a long time.

[Chris Houston]

Ken "What one fire officer says is adequate another criticises or rejects, etc." - If the doccument is £99, and not available on line, it will be a long time before it is seen out and about on the FSO's desk.
Put that together with Brigades not funding Morton courses so no trickle down of info. from the centre - I foresee little impact for a long time.

Surely, however, if someone does their risk assessment to PAS 79, it's going to be a hard argument to say that it is deemed unacceptable...........

[colin todd]

Fire safety an employers guide is a fire safety document. It gives no useful guidance on the practicalities of fire risk assessment. If is is any good, why is that that many I/Os are honest enough to admit that they have no benchmark for a suitable and sufficient fire risk assessment.