Electronic locks and door hold open devices

[Paul2886]

Require the assistance of a fire alarm guru.
On testing a fire alarm, from the panel, none of the doors were released from their magntic hold-open devices nor did the electronic locks, fitted to the final exits, operate to allow the opening of the doors.
On all other tests all was ok ie: from the call points and an activated detector head. The fire alarm engineer told me this was normal and therefore I am asking your advice. It is in my opinion that testing, even from the panels 'evacuate' button should operate these devices

[black arts]

I believe you have answered your own question, and maybe your FA engineer is telling porkies (technical term meaning lies)

[Graeme]

Require the assistance of a fire alarm guru.
On testing a fire alarm, from the panel, none of the doors were released from their magntic hold-open devices nor did the electronic locks, fitted to the final exits, operate to allow the opening of the doors.
On all other tests all was ok ie: from the call points and an activated detector head. The fire alarm engineer told me this was normal and therefore I am asking your advice. It is in my opinion that testing, even from the panels 'evacuate' button should operate these devices

Not all panels internal relays operate when the evcauate button is used so would not release the locks unless they were tied into the sounder circuit someway.

If you have tested from a call point then they should have released providing they have been connected in the first place?

[Paul2886]

Graeme replys:  Not all panels internal relays operate when the evcauate button is used so would not release the locks unless they were tied into the sounder circuit someway.

So are we saying that its ok if the panels' avacuate button doesn't activate the devices. This is a care home with elderly frail people residing in it. Is it just a matter of training staff to use a break-glass call point in the event of discovering a fire before the automatic system has picked it up.
So all the panel 'evacuate' button does, in some cases, is ring the bells or activate the sounders. I think that in a sleeping risk, especially care homes, and where there may be a delayed evacuation that the doors should close no matter how the alarm is activated. To give protection at least to the staff members. That,s my thoughts I wonder what others may think

[Galeon]

Evacuate button in my view was the last shot if you could not get to a call point . Personally as we don't even use it for bomb alert (ref Home Office Doc) , I would like to see it gone from all panels . The trend with most panels now is silence alarm button and resound .
I have lost count the amount of people that use the evac button , as a weekly test , obviously wrong so in my view I don't see you have a problem.

Note on Grahams post , spot on what he said , but you are not allowed to trigger door mags etc off the alarm circuit anyhow so that's ruled that scenario out .

[Paul2886]

Thanks all. As usual appreciate your comments

[Graeme]

Evacuate button in my view was the last shot if you could not get to a call point . Personally as we don't even use it for bomb alert (ref Home Office Doc) , I would like to see it gone from all panels . The trend with most panels now is silence alarm button and resound .
I have lost count the amount of people that use the evac button , as a weekly test , obviously wrong so in my view I don't see you have a problem.

Note on Grahams post , spot on what he said , but you are not allowed to trigger door mags etc off the alarm circuit anyhow so that's ruled that scenario out .

Hi Galeon

very true but can never be discounted as it has been done before.
I'm with you regards evac button. I have had many a call from users saying that the doors did not release during a fire test only to discover that their test was the evac button and the internal fire relays were not linked to that input.

[Graeme]

Graeme replys:  Not all panels internal relays operate when the evcauate button is used so would not release the locks unless they were tied into the sounder circuit someway.

So are we saying that its ok if the panels' avacuate button doesn't activate the devices. This is a care home with elderly frail people residing in it. Is it just a matter of training staff to use a break-glass call point in the event of discovering a fire before the automatic system has picked it up.
So all the panel 'evacuate' button does, in some cases, is ring the bells or activate the sounders. I think that in a sleeping risk, especially care homes, and where there may be a delayed evacuation that the doors should close no matter how the alarm is activated. To give protection at least to the staff members. That,s my thoughts I wonder what others may think

i agree with you. I am going from memory with non addressable panels but i know the addressable ones we use the evac button is all tied into common fire and will activate sounders and internal fire relay.

[SidM]

Why would anyone want to evacuate by activating the panel?  Anyway, does the British Standard not say anything about this?

[Galeon]

You can use it as much as you like , but not for a weekly test , obviously on a big set up say shopping center use , you may have sector alarms for manual phased evac , but  my general post is your run of the mill single stage evac , where the panel is not controlled by security etc .

[David Rooney]

I thought that EN54 had no requirement for a "sound alarms" button on the panel..... rather a break glass that did a site wide evacuation??

I know for a fact Kentec Syncros don't have "sound alarms"..... only "resound"......

And regarding controlling the mags via a sounder circuit.........BS 7273-4 specifically forbids this .... even if it is latching......!!!

[Galeon]

It seems Brussels have got it right for a change !!!