Author Topic: CO2 Gross Weight  (Read 11624 times)

Offline nim

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CO2 Gross Weight
« on: July 15, 2008, 09:08:56 PM »
Came across a brand new 2kg Soda Club CO2 extinguisher with the Nett Weight, and 2kg CO2 stamped around the cylinder neck but it didn't have the Gross Weight stamped on the body.

Now is it a requirement of BS EN3 that a CO2 body must have the Gross Weight stamped on it?

Offline AnthonyB

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2008, 12:01:20 AM »
Marking requirements for CO2 are in  EN3-9:2006 and must have a tare and a maximum fill weight, but a gross weight is no longer required. The Pressure Equipment Regulations only cover the CE mark & I assume the general BS EN for aluminium cylinders also can't require it (am still digging that one out)

Gross was always traditionally required in the past, but no more it seems.

For servicing therefore you must have to work it like this:

2 kilo CO2 with a Tare of 2.8kilo - Full weight should be at 4.8 kilo, therefore minimum when weighed (using the 10% rule in BS 5306-3) is 4.6kilo.
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Offline The Reiver

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 12:44:51 PM »
Directive 97/23/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 May 1997
on the approximation of the laws of the Member States concerning pressure equipment
Annex I
3. MANUFACTURING
3.3. Marking and labelling

In addition to the CE marking referred to in Article 15, the following information must be provided

(a) for all pressure equipment:

- the name and address or other means of identification of the manufacturer and, where appropriate, of his authorized representative established within the Community,

- the year of manufacture,

- identification of the pressure equipment according to its nature, such as type, series or batch identification and serial number,

- essential maximum/minimum allowable limits;

(b) depending on the type of pressure equipment, further information necessary for safe installation, operation or use and, where applicable, maintenance and periodic inspection such as:

- the volume V of the pressure equipment in L,

- the nominal size for piping DN,

- the test pressure PT applied in bar and date,

- safety device set pressure in bar,

- output of the pressure equipment in kW,

- supply voltage in V (volts),

- intended use,

- filling ratio kg/L,

- maximum filling mass in kg,

- tare mass in kg,

- the product group;


No gross weight required on anything that falls under PED 97/23/EC & EN3 has to follow suite.
I don't think any manufacturers CO2's have had gross weight stamped on for some time now.
(OO\SKYLINE/OO)

Offline nim

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 10:50:36 PM »
Quote from: The Reiver
I don't think any manufacturers CO2's have had gross weight stamped on for some time now.
When was the last time you serviced a CO2 or took one out of a box for commissioning?

The Soda Club CO2 I saw a couple of days ago with no Gross Weight stamped was Jactone but was manufactured a year ago. Today took half a dozen Soda Club TG CO2's out of the box today and all had Gross weight stamped on them. I don't think to date I have ever commissioned a new CO2 with no Gross Weight Stamped on it. And before anyone says I haven't commissioned any CO2's................

Offline AnthonyB

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 03:40:22 PM »
I thought TG's CO2 extinguishers were from UTC's Chinese Factory? Unless UTC have bought out Soda Club (wouldn't surprise me!).

Most reputable manufacturers of long standing retain the gross weight even if not obligatory - at the end of the day it all boils down to the cylinder manufacturers policy.
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Offline f500

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 03:53:12 PM »
TG's co2's are soda club currently.

Offline AnthonyB

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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 04:11:30 PM »
Small world then, haven't installed TG stuff for a few years, I'll have a close look then next time I see one.

No evidence on the UTC main site that they own Soda Club so that's why it seems odd - with the manufacturing capacity at the group's disposal around the world seems odd they are using 3rd party products, unless they are having supply problems
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Offline RFPS

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 08:19:44 PM »
The Chubb CO2 extinguishers that I purchased last week were manufactured by Soda Club and I recall that the ones last year were manufactured by that company too.  The last Chubb CO2s supplied to me by that company, where the cylinders were manufactured by Luxfer, was in 2006.

I could be wrong about this but I thought that the last U.K. manufactured Chubb kit is dated 2005 (Water/Foam/Powder), however it would appear that their CO2s continued to be manufactured in the U.K. certainly into 2006.  It looks like from 2007 onwards that the manufacture moved to the Soda Club factory which I think is in Israel.

Offline Psuedonym

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 09:01:02 PM »
Quote from: AnthonyB
No evidence on the UTC main site that they own Soda Club so that's why it seems odd
There's no evidence on the Black & Green website (Very credible green firm aparently) are owned by Cabdury. As for the Coca Cola owned companies....Buxton Water!!??..Hmm..very odd world out there AB! :)
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Offline Psuedonym

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 09:42:18 PM »
Soda-Club Ltd, Mishor Adumim Plant, Ugda St 50, P.O. Box 77, Mishor Adumim Industrial Zone, Jerusalem 98510, Isreal.
Co2, Body Material: Aluminium, Model T117/55. Size 2Kg. Fire Rating 55B.

Soda-Club Ltd, Gilboa Street, PO Box 280, Ben Gurion Airport,Isreal 70100

If anyone's interested. :D
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Offline AnthonyB

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« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 12:01:22 AM »
2005 is right for the demise of Ferndale and UK Chubb manufacture - they freely admitted they were moving production to China.

The reason I think it's strange that Soda Club are not mentioned as being part of UTC (if they are) is because on the parent UTC site they freely list every single company they have - and it's a lot - they've cornered a large percentage of UK direct & trade supply and have most of Europe covered.

You can find out how many 'relatives' Nu Swift have in the UK too if you go to the London Securities website.

Of course they could be independent & have just managed to get a good contract with UTC - after all the TG 'economy' 1kg & 2kg powders (as well as the whole range of stuff sold by LIFECO and Fire Tech)are actually made by NAFFCO in the United Arab Emirates.

Soda Club aren't the first Israeli extinguishers to be used here - a few years back someone tried to market Lehavot extinguishers to the trade. I have the (poor quality) sales literature and price list still in the archive, but it never took off - only seen two extinguishers in the flesh, one in an office in Sheffield, one in an office in Basildon!
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Offline Tom Sutton

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2008, 10:17:47 AM »
FIRE KWENCHER is the Fire extinguisher division of Soda-Club Ltd. http://www.firekwencher.com/default.asp?pages=aboutus

Soda Club’s Site http://www.sodaclub.com/sodaclub.html I this the same soda club you are discussing.
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline John Dragon

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2008, 10:43:59 AM »
Quote from: AnthonyB
2005 is right for the demise of Ferndale and UK Chubb manufacture - they freely admitted they were moving production to China.

The reason I think it's strange that Soda Club are not mentioned as being part of UTC (if they are) is because on the parent UTC site they freely list every single company they have - and it's a lot - they've cornered a large percentage of UK direct & trade supply and have most of Europe covered.

You can find out how many 'relatives' Nu Swift have in the UK too if you go to the London Securities website.

Of course they could be independent & have just managed to get a good contract with UTC - after all the TG 'economy' 1kg & 2kg powders (as well as the whole range of stuff sold by LIFECO and Fire Tech)are actually made by NAFFCO in the United Arab Emirates.

Soda Club aren't the first Israeli extinguishers to be used here - a few years back someone tried to market Lehavot extinguishers to the trade. I have the (poor quality) sales literature and price list still in the archive, but it never took off - only seen two extinguishers in the flesh, one in an office in Sheffield, one in an office in Basildon!
We bought a sample batch of Lehavot extinguishers about 10 yrs ago, some are still around!
CO2s were steel, waters, powders and foams were medium quality.
We didnt buy a second batch though!

Offline Psuedonym

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2008, 07:24:32 PM »
Quote from: AnthonyB
The reason I think it's strange that Soda Club are not mentioned as being part of UTC (if they are) is because on the parent UTC site they freely list every single company they have - and it's a lot - they've cornered a large percentage of UK direct & trade supply and have most of Europe covered.
I recently had the pleasure of an induction UTC toolbox talk zzzz,zzzz,zz :rolleyes: and one of the presentations included the global state of affairs for UTC. Soda Club were not mentioned as an owned company.
(What a long day!) I did get a bit of shuteye though, so I could have missed it !
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Offline Psuedonym

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CO2 Gross Weight
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2008, 07:29:41 PM »
Right again TW! FireKwencher are distributors for SodaClub kit.

SodaClub Worldwide Trading Co.
7 The Office Village
Forder Way
Cygnet Park
Peterborough
PE7 8GX

Also......

SafeLincs distribute Soda Club Co2's!!!!

(The domain name of Firekwencher was registered on 14/2/2005 IP Address 82.80.254.103 By Suzie Finkel, Giboa St, Airport City, Ben Gurion Airport, Isreal, 70100 Tel +972-3-9762320)

I need a pint.
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