Author Topic: Minerva 80 ADT system ???  (Read 18141 times)

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« on: July 16, 2008, 07:15:28 PM »
Guys;

I Had the same fault came up in different sites and the same sort of panel, 'loop warning, non addressable C pnt 1'. What is this mean?
Is it an internal fault in the main panel ?
Also, swapping the loop cards inside would that cause data lost (Eprom data)?
What about downpowering the system and back on, would that cause data to be lost too?

We still have to deal with Minerva system unfortunately, till we get decision to change them.

Thank you

Offline Allen Higginson

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 02:53:10 PM »
You can swap the loop cards around but you have to swap the eproms on each to keep the correct loop data.
Powering it down and back up again will not cause loss of data BUT be careful that the links aren't in place on the loop cards and the main board or it the configuration data will be erased.
The mesage doesn't sound quite right but I reckon that you have a problem on loop C (which is the 2nd card).The quiescent loop current has exceeded 4mA and can be caused by a faulty device (s) or a wiring fault causing loop leakage.Check your loop analogue value when this comes up (fast access 0062) and see what it's sitting at.
Bear in my mind that 2010 is approaching where support for these panels is being withdrawn - they are already considered obsolete.

Offline David Rooney

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 03:10:55 PM »
We had similar a problem many years ago with "non addressable point" faults, ADT told us it could be absolutley anything, from a base to a head... their solution was to take everything off the loop, put an ammeter on and then put everything back on the loop one buy one and look for a "higher than normal current draw"....!!

.....really useful!

Anyway on the subject of Minervas, we have a panel that is continuously resetting, every couple of minutes. If you set the alarms off it will also reset by itself.... one of hte loop cards appears to have packed up as two loops are not working at all......

any (clean ish) suggestions......???
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Offline Allen Higginson

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 04:00:42 PM »
If it stays constant I'd recommend that you - check the loop value,split the loop and remove the out and in in turn to see which side the high current is on.

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 05:21:14 PM »
Quote from: Buzzard905
You can swap the loop cards around but you have to swap the eproms on each to keep the correct loop data.
Powering it down and back up again will not cause loss of data BUT be careful that the links aren't in place on the loop cards and the main board or it the configuration data will be erased.
The mesage doesn't sound quite right but I reckon that you have a problem on loop C (which is the 2nd card).The quiescent loop current has exceeded 4mA and can be caused by a faulty device (s) or a wiring fault causing loop leakage.Check your loop analogue value when this comes up (fast access 0062) and see what it's sitting at.
Bear in my mind that 2010 is approaching where support for these panels is being withdrawn - they are already considered obsolete.
Very useful advice, I had noticed the EPROM’s on the loop cards, not like other makes have EPROM’s on the main PCB board, and that's the main suspicions...

I had checked that day, the analogue values only loop C had weird readings, some values 8.8 till 9 some others very low till 1 and 0 mA.

However, I tested all zones covered by loop C all worked OK; I mean one device in each zone, including the one shows 0mA value. This did not make sense to me.

Regarding the message: below 'non-addressable' it was displayed 'C' and below 'point' it was '1' I am not familiar with ADT stuff!

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 05:26:02 PM »
Quote from: David Rooney
We had similar a problem many years ago with "non addressable point" faults, ADT told us it could be absolutley anything, from a base to a head... their solution was to take everything off the loop, put an ammeter on and then put everything back on the loop one buy one and look for a "higher than normal current draw"....!!
But what is the normal current draw how much should be ?

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 05:27:43 PM »
Quote from: Buzzard905
If it stays constant I'd recommend that you - check the loop value,split the loop and remove the out and in in turn to see which side the high current is on.
How much normally is high current ?

Offline Allen Higginson

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2008, 07:09:29 PM »
Hi Banz - anything up to 4mA in quiescent mode is normal (although I was always happy at around 1.8 - 2.2).Anything between 4 and 8 gives you the Loop Warning.Next step is Loop Fault,which is between 8 & 12 and finally Loop Critical which is abnormal above 12mA.
You shouldn't be getting 0 from a device unless it is in fault but there is a different range of analogue values for each device type which are unique to that device type - a callpoint is between 1.4 & 3.0,a MR901 is 6.0 to 13.6,an RM520 is 2.0 to 4.4 etc.

Send me your mail address and I can pass on some more info.
Allen

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2008, 08:46:19 PM »
Quote from: Buzzard905
Hi Banz - anything up to 4mA in quiescent mode is normal (although I was always happy at around 1.8 - 2.2).Anything between 4 and 8 gives you the Loop Warning.Next step is Loop Fault,which is between 8 & 12 and finally Loop Critical which is abnormal above 12mA.
You shouldn't be getting 0 from a device unless it is in fault but there is a different range of analogue values for each device type which are unique to that device type - a callpoint is between 1.4 & 3.0,a MR901 is 6.0 to 13.6,an RM520 is 2.0 to 4.4 etc.

Send me your mail address and I can pass on some more info.
Allen
you can send them to:
 
benzerari1966@yahoo.com

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 01:42:54 PM »
Allen;

Thank you for the info, this is really useful.

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 01:35:32 PM »
Yet another problem with Minerva 80, one single sounder went off for about 2 hours till it's been removed, it a sounder base MB900 Type A...

Just would like to know what cause it to go off?

Why nothing came up on the panel, till it's been removed with the detector?

I just assumed the sounder base in this system is not addressable device, not like Apllo sounder base which have their own addresses?

Thank yoooooooooooo

Offline Allen Higginson

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 04:38:03 PM »
Quote from: Benzerari
Yet another problem with Minerva 80, one single sounder went off for about 2 hours till it's been removed, it a sounder base MB900 Type A...

Just would like to know what cause it to go off?

Why nothing came up on the panel, till it's been removed with the detector?

I just assumed the sounder base in this system is not addressable device, not like Apllo sounder base which have their own addresses?

Thank yoooooooooooo
Faulty device,either caused by equipment failure or water ingress

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 07:45:32 PM »
Quote from: Buzzard905
Quote from: Benzerari
Yet another problem with Minerva 80, one single sounder went off for about 2 hours till it's been removed, it a sounder base MB900 Type A...

Just would like to know what cause it to go off?

Why nothing came up on the panel, till it's been removed with the detector?

I just assumed the sounder base in this system is not addressable device, not like Apllo sounder base which have their own addresses?

Thank yoooooooooooo
Faulty device,either caused by equipment failure or water ingress
Water ingress? it was no trace of wet at all mate, the fact that I fitted back the smoke detector into the base without sounder base... and the fault cleared out completely...

Faulty device? that's the last thing to suggest, we are going to change the sounder base by brand new one.

Thanks

Offline Allen Higginson

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 09:06:13 PM »
Quote from: Benzerari
Quote from: Buzzard905
Quote from: Benzerari
Yet another problem with Minerva 80, one single sounder went off for about 2 hours till it's been removed, it a sounder base MB900 Type A...

Just would like to know what cause it to go off?

Why nothing came up on the panel, till it's been removed with the detector?

I just assumed the sounder base in this system is not addressable device, not like Apllo sounder base which have their own addresses?

Thank yoooooooooooo
Faulty device,either caused by equipment failure or water ingress
Water ingress? it was no trace of wet at all mate, the fact that I fitted back the smoke detector into the base without sounder base... and the fault cleared out completely...

Faulty device? that's the last thing to suggest, we are going to change the sounder base by brand new one.

Thanks
I used to work for them and we had a run of them going faulty as you have described - be prepared to pay for the spares now!

Offline Benzerari

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Minerva 80 ADT system ???
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2008, 09:27:25 PM »
Quote from: Buzzard905
Quote from: Benzerari
Quote from: Buzzard905
Faulty device,either caused by equipment failure or water ingress
Water ingress? it was no trace of wet at all mate, the fact that I fitted back the smoke detector into the base without sounder base... and the fault cleared out completely...

Faulty device? that's the last thing to suggest, we are going to change the sounder base by brand new one.

Thanks
I used to work for them and we had a run of them going faulty as you have described - be prepared to pay for the spares now!
It's been ordered mate