Bs 5839

[kurnal]

Ref plastic cable ties and the BS5839 reference to firefighters- I agree and is a valid point- but of course from another viewpoint- the RRO is clear that firefighters are not relevant persons.
So in a fire risk assessment under the RRO are plastic ties supporting fire alarm cables a significant finding?

[Allen Higginson]

Ref plastic cable ties and the BS5839 reference to firefighters- I agree and is a valid point- but of course from another viewpoint- the RRO is clear that firefighters are not relevant persons.
So in a fire risk assessment under the RRO are plastic ties supporting fire alarm cables a significant finding?

Im not conversant with the RRO but they are not permitted as sole means of support for fire cables.Similarly,I will allow our installers to use plastic trunking provided they have metal P clips at regular intervals.

[jokar]

If it is stated that the FA is to the BS and the cables are not installed correctly then yes that could be a significant finding.  However, what can be done after install may be limited by the cable runs of all the cables together.  After all, as has been noted above it does not apply to other cables.

Anyway what happened to professional firefighting?

[CivvyFSO]

Ref plastic cable ties and the BS5839 reference to firefighters- I agree and is a valid point- but of course from another viewpoint- the RRO is clear that firefighters are not relevant persons.
So in a fire risk assessment under the RRO are plastic ties supporting fire alarm cables a significant finding?

Quite right, no they would not be a significant finding. But think about a recently installed alarm, if it was not to this standard and someone got hurt because of it, I could imagine that the installer could be for the high jump if someone was aware that this requirement had been ignored. It wouldn't be a failing under the RRO, and BS5839 is not retrospective so old systems cannot be required to be updated as BS5839 changes.

[Galeon]

No excuse for all plastic ties , use a metal tie every third fixing on the tray (if its there) or p clipped to slab .

[Thomas Brookes]

This is were I think the BS fail us all, they should get off the fence and clearly state that they want metal fixings everywhere or not, I think they should also look into the practicalities of fitting p clips etc insde trunking.
Technically just having your cable on a metal tray is possibly ok as it is being supported by the tray and the tray is giving the cable more support than the time the cable will last in a fire suituation.
The big problem with metal ties is that they dont grip the cable so unless you put a plastic tie on it you end  up with slack cables.

[Galeon]

Still more choice to be had , use the copper banding we use to use on the mineral

[wee brian]

Ref plastic cable ties and the BS5839 reference to firefighters- I agree and is a valid point- but of course from another viewpoint- the RRO is clear that firefighters are not relevant persons.
So in a fire risk assessment under the RRO are plastic ties supporting fire alarm cables a significant finding?

Quite right, no they would not be a significant finding. But think about a recently installed alarm, if it was not to this standard and someone got hurt because of it, I could imagine that the installer could be for the high jump if someone was aware that this requirement had been ignored. It wouldn't be a failing under the RRO, and BS5839 is not retrospective so old systems cannot be required to be updated as BS5839 changes.

Metal clips are as much about circuit integrity as they are about fire fighter safety. So it could be a significant finding.

[Graeme]

This is were I think the BS fail us all, they should get off the fence and clearly state that they want metal fixings everywhere or not, I think they should also look into the practicalities of fitting p clips etc insde trunking.
Technically just having your cable on a metal tray is possibly ok as it is being supported by the tray and the tray is giving the cable more support than the time the cable will last in a fire suituation.
The big problem with metal ties is that they dont grip the cable so unless you put a plastic tie on it you end  up with slack cables.

Thomas

get yourself one of those magic guns for metal ties. I have one and you can get the tie as tight as required.

[Allen Higginson]

This is were I think the BS fail us all, they should get off the fence and clearly state that they want metal fixings everywhere or not, I think they should also look into the practicalities of fitting p clips etc insde trunking.
Technically just having your cable on a metal tray is possibly ok as it is being supported by the tray and the tray is giving the cable more support than the time the cable will last in a fire suituation.
The big problem with metal ties is that they dont grip the cable so unless you put a plastic tie on it you end  up with slack cables.

To be fair I would have metal ties as intermediate support with metal as the main.Even if the plastic give and there is slack it wouldn't be significant to warrant total metal support.
Our guys run cables in 20mm conduit and saddles above ceilings so no risk of cables dropping unless the ceiling goes!