Magnet Security locks on exit doors

[jayjay]

I need help on which published standard, either BS/EN or other guidance code that details the need and method for the manual override switches fitted to doors with magnet security locks.

I have searched the Internet, Technical Indexes and manufacturer’s web pages, and have not found any documents directly relating to magnetic door releases.

I understand why and what is required but I need to determine where the standards are detailed.

I have a situation in a special needs school where the pupils have sussed that the green boxes will easily release the doors. One pupil had managed to leave the school without the knowledge of the staff and due to his special needs could easily have resulted in his personal harm.

 On the particular green break glass boxes installed the frangible switch cover does not need to be broken, it only require a slight touch to the front and the door will release,

From the relevant code or guide, I need to determine what alternatives can be used and balance the serious risk of pupils leaving the school against the risk of a need to pass through the doors if the fire alarm is not operating.

Some of these doors are internal doors separating young children from older children, and girls from boys. Operation of the fire alarm will release all the magnetic locks.

I am sure there must be some one out there who has actually seen the guidance/standard if so can you give details of the document.

[Galeon]

You can buy an enclosure that this call point will fit into , so you will get an internal sounder operating , (powered by pp9 or similar ) should the outer hinge cover be opened to get to the call point element,  adjust your risk assessment to factor in why you have done this , job done.
This is the most simplest way forward , you don't want to go down the road of hidden switches and all that nonsense , and any ramifications that this will no doubt lead to.

[nearlythere]

I need help on which published standard, either BS/EN or other guidance code that details the need and method for the manual override switches fitted to doors with magnet security locks.

I have searched the Internet, Technical Indexes and manufacturer’s web pages, and have not found any documents directly relating to magnetic door releases.

I understand why and what is required but I need to determine where the standards are detailed.

I have a situation in a special needs school where the pupils have sussed that the green boxes will easily release the doors. One pupil had managed to leave the school without the knowledge of the staff and due to his special needs could easily have resulted in his personal harm.

 On the particular green break glass boxes installed the frangible switch cover does not need to be broken, it only require a slight touch to the front and the door will release,

From the relevant code or guide, I need to determine what alternatives can be used and balance the serious risk of pupils leaving the school against the risk of a need to pass through the doors if the fire alarm is not operating.

Some of these doors are internal doors separating young children from older children, and girls from boys. Operation of the fire alarm will release all the magnetic locks.

I am sure there must be some one out there who has actually seen the guidance/standard if so can you give details of the document.

BS 7273-4:2007  Code of practice for the operation of fire protection measures – Part 4: Actuation of release
mechanisms for doors.
Try this.

[Wiz]

I need help on which published standard, either BS/EN or other guidance code that details the need and method for the manual override switches fitted to doors with magnet security locks.

I have searched the Internet, Technical Indexes and manufacturer’s web pages, and have not found any documents directly relating to magnetic door releases.

I understand why and what is required but I need to determine where the standards are detailed.

I have a situation in a special needs school where the pupils have sussed that the green boxes will easily release the doors. One pupil had managed to leave the school without the knowledge of the staff and due to his special needs could easily have resulted in his personal harm.

 On the particular green break glass boxes installed the frangible switch cover does not need to be broken, it only require a slight touch to the front and the door will release,

From the relevant code or guide, I need to determine what alternatives can be used and balance the serious risk of pupils leaving the school against the risk of a need to pass through the doors if the fire alarm is not operating.

Some of these doors are internal doors separating young children from older children, and girls from boys. Operation of the fire alarm will release all the magnetic locks.

I am sure there must be some one out there who has actually seen the guidance/standard if so can you give details of the document.

I have spent the past few weeks (on and off) looking over BS7273-4 2007.

It is the most confusing BS I have ever read.

Please also be aware that towards the end of the document, it suddenly advises that it is actually an incomplete standard pending the future publication of other related standards.

I wouldn't profess to be any sort of expert on BS7273-4 2007 after such a short time of reading it, but I am pretty sure I remember that it does not allow any dispensation for the Green MCPs for the type of installation you have, except in very high-security establishments. The question is whether this dispensation would apply to your installation.

If you research BS7273-4 2007 in respect of your enquiry and come up with any comments or information that feel would be of interest to us on Firenet, we would certainly appreciate hearing about it.

[val]

Jayjay

This sort of situation is perfect for our brave new world based on risk. First of all I was involved in the drawing up of the BS. It is tricky but then this whole subject is.

In your circumstances I would query the need for mag locks on external doors. If there are sufficient staff (and this is a fairly big if), I would be happy with locks with keys (or similar) held by the staff. The internal mag locks could easily be replaced by numeric type locks as long as they do not form primary escape routes.

I have accepted these arrangements in a care home for very confused residents because it already required a high staffing ratio.

It is a balance of risks, security and safety against fire. Adequate people, training etc could easilly overcome the problems

[Rosjes]

Have you considered installing door monitoring points to provide unauthorised egress via audible and visual warning? Either stand alone or controlled from a central control panel. If a complex building with multiple doors you could use C-tec quantec addressable system (or equivalent) such as Lissmore Instruments or SAS ltd. Each has the ability to interface doors via isolatable (keyswitch) door monitoring points to raise an alarm condition and display door description on a backlit lcd from multiple displays if necessary.

Your site may already benefit from a call system and integrating the door monitoring points may be fairly straight forward and relatively cost effective.

Another option maybe would be to change the call points (if necessary) to two or three pole to perform two functions, firstly to fail the door open and secondly to trigger a local alarm.

[Tom Sutton]

Try http://www.fire.org.uk/punbb/upload/viewtopic.php?id=1013  a previous thread with some relevance to this one.

[Wiz]

If a door open warning system, as suggested above by rosjes, is to be considered there are also a number of products available from Hoyles Electronic Developments Ltd that may be suitable.

In the same vein, please also remember that many addressable fire alarm systems have the ability to include non-fire inputs (and outputs) on the loop(s) that can be used to monitor doors opening/green call points operating etc. etc. and provide warnings remotely by using the existing wiring and without generating any warning condition on the cie if required. This might be a cost-effective solution instead of running lots of new cabling for a new door monitoring system.

[Wiz]

........ First of all I was involved in the drawing up of the BS. It is tricky but then this whole subject is.......

Val, are you able and willing to give us Firenet users a summary of the important recommendations of this BS? My personal opinion based on only five hours of reading it, is that the document is poorly laid out, includes possibly conflicting recommendations and is almost impossible to follow. Please don't take these comments as personal criticism of anyone who worked on the document because I realise that I am probably just too dumb to understand it! This BS is an important document that those of us involved in fire alarm systems should know all about. Any help would be most appreciated.

[jayjay]

Thanks for the replies I have now got a copy of the BS, looking at the comments my problem is not unique and the soulutions may not be simple.