Loft Conversion - Scotland

[kurnal]

I have posted this on behalf of a potential new member who has contacted me- he cannot join in his own name due to the current embargo.
Anyone wanting to contact him directly can do so by a pm to me.

I shall call him Gretna for now.

 I have completed a loft conversion and have upgraded the existing pine paneled doors to fire doors using ‘Aquafire Systems’ made by Icarus GB ltd in Edinburgh. I have found it extremely difficult to make the 7 doors that open onto the exit route (2 stairs and a landing) self-closing. I have bought ‘Hercules’ surface mounted door closers and have found that some of the doors close automatically. However, when I introduce a draft proofing strip as a smoke seal (as advised by the local building control officer) the doors no longer close – nor is there any prospect of them closing. So … do my doors have to be self closing in Scotland and do I need smoke seals. I have read that in England the regulations have been relaxed.

Thanks for your help and advice in advance.

[kurnal]

I would be very careful about using draft proofing strip anyway. The smoke seals are intended only to contain the effects of fire for a short period of time before the intumescent seals take over. Using draft seals will probably make matters worse- they may burn fiercely and erode the edges of the fire door, or give off a great deal of smoke as they pyrolise that will affect the escape routes. Envirograf do a retro fit self adesive combined seal that fits in the frame on the reveal and should solve your problems. There are also specific smoke only seals that fit in the frame in the shape of a "batwing".

Is the Hercules fire rated?

[kurnal]

Please could someone tell me what this paragraph from the Scottish
building standards actually means?

2.9.31 Protected enclosures - Houses
In a house containing an apartment or kitchen in a storey at a height of more
than 4.5 m, every stair should be in a protected enclosure (see clause
2.9.21). However this does not apply to a stair in a house with one storey at a
height of more than 4.5 m where the topmost storey does not contain an
apartment or a kitchen. The protected enclosure should also follow the
guidance for supporting structure (see clause 2.9.25), openings (see clause
2.9.26) and junctions (see clause 2.9.27).

[nearlythere]

Please could someone tell me what this paragraph from the Scottish
building standards actually means?

2.9.31 Protected enclosures - Houses
In a house containing an apartment or kitchen in a storey at a height of more
than 4.5 m, every stair should be in a protected enclosure (see clause
2.9.21). However this does not apply to a stair in a house with one storey at a
height of more than 4.5 m where the topmost storey does not contain an
apartment or a kitchen. The protected enclosure should also follow the
guidance for supporting structure (see clause 2.9.25), openings (see clause
2.9.26) and junctions (see clause 2.9.27).

Simple Kurnal.
If a house contains an apartment or kitchen in a storey at a height of more than 4.5 m, every stair should be in a protected enclosure. But it doesn't apply to a stair in a house with one storey at a height of more than 4.5 m where the topmost storey does not contain an apartment or a kitchen. The protected enclosure should also follow the guidance for supporting structure (see clause 2.9.25), openings (see clause
2.9.26) and junctions (see clause 2.9.27).

Got it?

[kurnal]

I must be being thick tonight.
So if I have a three storey house with a bedroom on the top floor at 4.6m and bedrooms at first floor of 2.5m and a kitcven and lounge on the ground floor do I need to protect the staircase?

[nearlythere]

I must be being thick tonight.
So if I have a three storey house with a bedroom on the top floor at 4.6m and bedrooms at first floor of 2.5m and a kitcven and lounge on the ground floor do I need to protect the staircase?

No. Yes. I think.
Where are you getting 4.6M and 2.5M from?
Would you not like to toddle off to bed with a mug of hot cocoa and bed socks and have another go in the morning?

[wee brian]

Yes cos youve got an aopartment above 4.5. Remeber  the word apartment means something funny in Scottish land.

[nearlythere]

Yes cos youve got an aopartment above 4.5. Remeber  the word apartment means something funny in Scottish land.

Still trying to decypher it.

[kurnal]

Just t bring this to a conclusion I have checked  the Scottish Building Standards 2008 and can confirm that where a loft conversion contasins an apartment (somethng we sassenachs call a habitable room) and has a floor at a height exceedng 4.5m then the staircase must be protected and all doors should be short duration fire doors with smoke control and self closing ( eg FD30S or E30S)

Hope this helps Mark- email or phone if you have any further query.

[Ricardo]

Kurnal

my understanding of this is that
"Kurnal wrote"

1 - "However this does not apply to a stair in a house with one storey at a
height of more than 4.5 m where the topmost storey does not contain an
apartment or a kitchen" -    (because at this level the storey will include only storage for example)

and

2 - "So if I have a three storey house with a bedroom on the top floor at 4.6m and bedrooms at first floor of 2.5m and a kitcven and lounge on the ground floor do I need to protect the staircase? - (YES because the appartment is at a height of more than 4.5 metres)

[kurnal]

Thanks Ricardo- I had not correctly understood the Scots use of the word "apartment"

[Ricardo]

Hi Kurnal, from the Scottish building regs
Apartment -  means a room in a dwelling not used solely as a kitchen, store or utility room.

[nearlythere]

Hi Kurnal, from the Scottish building regs
Apartment -  means a room in a dwelling not used solely as a kitchen, store or utility room.

These foreigners :rolleyes: