Guest house

[kurnal]

I dont seek to side with Davidrh and I share to some extent his frustrations in terms of how things are enforced in the UK. Not only fire safety - try dealing with social services or the health trusts or CSCI and try cutting through the misinformation, illogical rules,  ill informed staff applying their own rules and interpretations and get some common sense - its enough to drive you round the bend. And his experience with fire seems to be similar to my experience in these other arenas.

The reason for this posting is just to put his comment  (Cig Hiel) in perspective. I too saw that newspaper story and it was an unfortunate play on words by a gutter press journalist in a rag not worth the paper it was printed on. The story was about the policy of the London brigade in offering free home risk assessments trying to balance their duty of care for their staff whose work involves visiting persons in their own homes where they may encounter smokers. The policy is to ask persons not to smoke one hour before the visit or during the visit. The stupid journalist used this as an excuse to try and ridicule the brigade. Hence the Cig hell- cig hiel. You cant smoke in your own home.

He obviously ignored the common sense response that these people are working in peoples homes for the full working day and so without such a policy could be exposed to second hand smoke for their full working life.

[afterburner]

Thanks Kurnal, this diatribe was not in the Scottish version of the Sun. It's a very unfortunate play on words and but that doesn't concern journalists when seeking a 'hook' for their headline.

[Ricardo]

The jungle drums are saying that there is some movement afoot and further guidance in respect of the smaller B&B  and specifically addressing proportionality is to be issued by the govt  very soon ..................................(though it may be a case of send three and fourpence................)

Kurnal, anyone, any more news on this matter as yet

[Tom W]

You all might be interested in the comments section http://www.firesafetysense.com/yourcomments.htm

"As holders of an old Fire Certificate, not licensed and not employing 5 or more persons, plus we can prove a paperwork trail of alarm testing and extinguisher inspection, why should we have to write it down on more paperwork? Writing it down does not prove a thing: never has, never will. "

"The reasons for creating the new regulations were purely and simply and mainly:
1. To relieve the government and its departments of any responsibility.
2. To create more work for the service industries and consequently more tax income for the government. "

[Mushy]

"A brief example of the overkill regs. I am being forced to comply with:
A couple of years ago I had Dorguards put on all 4 fire doors. ( Automatic door closers which respond to the fire alarms ).
They cost me over £500.00 to install. I am now told to remove them because if there was a fire and for some reason the alarms did not go off then the fire doors would not close. i have tested those fire alarms every week for the last 22 years and they have never failed yet.They are serviced every 6 months and checked weekly because I legally have to. My nice guest house is now dull and boring. I cannot leave the door to the bar or dining room open nor to the TV lounge. I don't have a reception desk area any more because all ideas to make it smoke and fire proof have met with dissaproval by the fire officer. So I am now conducting Reception and billing over my Bar. Is this what the Legislation is suppose to do? The fire officer I am dealing with at the moment is the FIRE OFFICER FROM HELL. He is everything your campaign is trying to change."

As a risk assessor would you allow dorguard?

[nearlythere]

"A brief example of the overkill regs. I am being forced to comply with:
A couple of years ago I had Dorguards put on all 4 fire doors. ( Automatic door closers which respond to the fire alarms ).
They cost me over £500.00 to install. I am now told to remove them because if there was a fire and for some reason the alarms did not go off then the fire doors would not close. i have tested those fire alarms every week for the last 22 years and they have never failed yet.They are serviced every 6 months and checked weekly because I legally have to. My nice guest house is now dull and boring. I cannot leave the door to the bar or dining room open nor to the TV lounge. I don't have a reception desk area any more because all ideas to make it smoke and fire proof have met with dissaproval by the fire officer. So I am now conducting Reception and billing over my Bar. Is this what the Legislation is suppose to do? The fire officer I am dealing with at the moment is the FIRE OFFICER FROM HELL. He is everything your campaign is trying to change."

As a risk assessor would you allow dorguard?

Do you have an proper automatic detection system installed?
The problem with Dorguards is that some people tend to use them to hold open kitchen doors. Kitchens are normally fitted with heat detectors which, of course, cannot detect smoke. You can then have a corridor or stairway full of smoke from the litchen and no alarm sounding.
What precisely are your circumstances?

[Mushy]

nearlythere...

I haven't really got any circumstances...I was asking because of the complaint from the person in the quote that I pulled from the link

[kurnal]

Hi Mushy
I would much rather see a dorgard than a wedge. I actually think they are excellent in the right situation and subject to a test in situ before fitting.

 If you cant deal with the underlying problem causing the door to be wedged open they are a cheap and effective alternative. I would much rather see swing free door closers or magnets as the circumstances permit ( due to durability and maintenance and battery replacement) but the dorgard fits the bill.

(The deafgard is also a useful bit of kit.)

[kurnal]

You all might be interested in the comments section http://www.firesafetysense.com/yourcomments.htm

Hi Piglet

Thanks for letting us know about this site.

If you have any contacts on this website please remind them that we are here and happy to contribute a little balance to the debate if we can.

It seems very one sided. If all they want is a good moan then it fits the bill. Some of their case histories dont let the truth stand in the way of a good story.

If on the other hand they are interested  in trying to understand the whys and wherefores and then having explored and clarified their concerns  to discuss them with people on the other side of the industry, who could even take their concerns forward into  other arenas then we could do that either through this forum or by allowing us to join theirs.

 I recently wrote to a National neswpaper to complain against the one sided slant to their story that totally misrepresented the facts. They published my letter but completely turned it round into praise for their standards of journalism. Swines.

[jokar]

Mushy, dorguard  have a BS and are a Class B device in BS 7273 part 4 and are therefore allowable.  Nearlythere's comment has to be taken into account of course and both FRS and RAers should allow them.

[colin todd]

Category B are not regarded as suitable for all applications, such as staircases in sleeping risks.

[Allen Higginson]

Category B are not regarded as suitable for all applications, such as staircases in sleeping risks.

Due to the acceptable lower dB levels in stairwells I assume?

[Mushy]

Thanks all

Category B are not regarded as suitable for all applications, such as staircases in sleeping risks.

This hotel that I stayed in the other weekend had a Dorgard keeping the fire door open at the head of it's accommodation staircase that was open on the ground floor but protecting the bedroom corridor on the first floor (alternative protected stairway at the other end)

The hotel had a very recently installed L2 system

Can you show me where this info can be found that says it's not acceptable Colin

Thanks

[jokar]

BS 7273 part 4, the tables in the back of the document assess Dorguard as a Category B stabdard.

[Mushy]

Sorry jokar I haven't got that document...is Colin right then (how could I doubt him) my friends hotel shouldn't have dorguard on the stairs?