Author Topic: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation  (Read 24838 times)

Offline colin todd

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Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2008, 10:24:09 PM »
Kurnal:  We used to record "the person responsible for fire safety" as management info in all our FRAs. WE dropped the term before intro of the Order, as RP has now a special legal definition, and it is probably best to reserve the use of the word responsible as an adjective associated with the word person, in the strict legal sense of the word.
Some FRSs use the word responsible person in their enforcement notices I am afraid Kurnal.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline colin todd

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Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2008, 10:50:06 PM »
Phillllip,

1. I know you arent personally responsible to use that term you like so much, but everyone needs an icon that personifies the horrors of their life. Like you probably told the little Bs about the boogie man to encompass a whole host of possible ghosties and ghoulies and things that go bump in the night. You are my icon for the horror that is a well-known establishment , thats all. Nothing personal, old boy. On the same subject, TW, problem with a lot of the training given is that in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. All myopic training deserves the same stick. Its part of equality and diversity.
2. Thank you for your acknowledgment of my good point. All my points are good though, it's one of my most irritating traits, second only to forgetting to put the toilet seat back down.
3. Thats two things you have agreed about in one posting. Are you feeling well, or should I be worried about your health.
4. In view of the above, it is incumbent upon me to find something to agree with you about. This is as good as anything.
5 I know you know it is not a typo. You are not some herbert, you are Phillip. Why would the Fire (Scotland) Act follow HASWA about meaning of domestic.
6. There is a lot of poor understanding by people, but some might have been avoided by using different terminology.

I love conspiracy theories as you know, Phillip. However, the reason you could not find Gullane is much simpler. You know how we Scots revel in education. The signage was just a form if 11 plus for our English visitors. You failed. It was a test of lateral thinking. The correct answer was simply not to leave the map at home.

With regard to my late nights, Phillip, not for the first time you are behind the times. You need to do more CPD in Toddyism. I divorced (the former) Mrs Todd on 17th April  2007, although my solicitor only told me in passing some 3 days later that the absolute had come through , and even then only en passent (thats french for en passent) when chatting about something else. ( I had become an expert in unreasonable behaviour from all those years dealing with enforcing authorities, so should really have acted for myself and not used a lawyer.) Anyhow, I was in Belfast at the time, and celebrated in style at Benedicts. Put this posting in your CPD record.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline colin todd

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Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2008, 10:56:27 PM »
Davidrh, NI is not God's own country, but He does spend most of his leisure time there, when not in his homeland of Scotland. A hotel there would be fine, but you could, alternatively, consider the Scottish Highlands. Both areas have beathtaking countryside, wonderful people, a major city of great nightlife, plus very friendly F&RS, who are part of the community, and take an enforcement concordat approach to enforcment of legislation that is much better written than that in E&W. I will leave the choice of the two to you, and will support your decision, whatever it is.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2009, 10:04:50 AM »
Northern Ireland's proposed fire safety regulations is now out for public consultation which closes 8 May 2009. All being well we can expect commencement of the Fire Safety elements of the Fire Safety Order 2006 around one month later.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Benzerari

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 02:26:02 PM »
Quote from: colin todd
But by avoiding the use of the stupid word responsible person, it will not confuse the fire and rescue authority as it so often does in England, whereby they think that, if anyone  has any duties of running a joint,  they (the FRS) can make them the RP to which the Order makes reference.

The use of a title to identify an individual or group could mean the use of a couple of words instead of a paragraph I would choose the title. If this is the case what title would you use to identify the Person or Persons who has the Responsibility to implement the order.

As to the FRS being confused then that could be up to the calibre or poor training of the new entrants into fire safety, also the lack guidance from government similar to that provided when the FPA was introduced.

I think the titles should be related to their specific job, when saying the (responsible person) RP, responsible of what? this is a general public definition, but where is the proper technical one, related to the discipline?..., quite same thing for Fire Protection engineer, it could be sprinkler engineer, fire alarm engineer, extinguisher engineer..., and above those the engineer could be designer, servicing, surveyer engineer..., also someone may say it's a fire fighter, but there is still no specific definitions to state what's what..., still the introduction of a national register for every bit, is the key point... 

Offline colin todd

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2009, 02:44:53 PM »
Benz you have got all confused. The RP is properly defined. IT is just no one bothers to read the definition and everyone thinks it is a person, which it normally is not.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Benzerari

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2009, 07:55:53 PM »
Benz you have got all confused. The RP is properly defined. IT is just no one bothers to read the definition and everyone thinks it is a person, which it normally is not.

Colin; why not displaying the difinition you are refering to in this forum, then let every body see how it looks like, if its fairly clear or it needs a proper technical one  :)

Offline Clevelandfire 3

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2009, 08:49:24 PM »
You are all kicking yourself up the backsides without the need to.The meaning of responsible persons is adequately described in the order. Even my 6 year old grand daughter could understand it. A client of mine has just received an enforcement notice and aslked me to help. The wording is as PHilB states and doesn't use the term "Responsible Person".

 

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2010, 05:24:13 PM »
Fire & Rescue Service (NI) Order on schedule to commence 1 April 2010.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Allen Higginson

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2010, 01:14:24 AM »
Fire & Rescue Service (NI) Order on schedule to commence 1 April 2010.
It's been so long - is there either a full or draft copy of it about??

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2010, 07:06:30 AM »
Fire & Rescue Service (NI) Order on schedule to commence 1 April 2010.
It's been so long - is there either a full or draft copy of it about??
The Order is freely available. The accompanying Regulations are still in draft form and not available on line just yet.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Tom Sutton

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2010, 08:08:42 PM »
The distinction between Order and Regulations is very important check out http://www.nifrs.org/fire_safety.php?sec=5237

Also check out http://www.dhsspsni.gov.uk/proposalsforfiresafetyreform.pdf for a draft copy of the Regulations.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 08:17:25 PM by twsutton »
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Allen Higginson

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2010, 09:14:43 PM »
Ta!

Offline Allen Higginson

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2010, 09:28:45 PM »
I'm curious to know does this compare with the rest of the UK or is it less stringent?
Excuse my ignorance in advance but I don't see the actual substance in it - will there be implications for non-third party accredited companies?

Offline Tom Sutton

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Re: Northern Ireland Fire Legislation
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2010, 10:20:26 PM »
Buzz when it comes into force it will simple bring NI in line with the rest of the UK. One good thing is its appears to get rid of unnecessary titles and simply refers to Employer, Person having control, Owner and Employee when dishing out the duties. (Article 25 to 28 of the Order).

NT do you know who will provide the guidance hopefully not the DCLG?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 10:23:46 PM by twsutton »
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.