Fire Risk Assessment

[Mushy]

Question for assessors...

If you were asked to carry out a FRA during a building renovation stage, could you do it?...or have the people got to be up and running before you could properly carry out the assessment?

[wee brian]

An FRA is required so somebody will have to do it.

It will need to be updated when the work is completed.

[Mushy]

Thanks for the reply Wee Brian

can you just clarify mate, a FRA has to be done even though the building is not yet occupied and work is being carried out?

[kurnal]

Yes building sites are covered by the Fire Safety Order. During the building phase relevant persons could be affected by fire- builders, members of the public etc
A fire risk assessment is required under the Fire Safety Order for the construction phase.
Who enforces this - it could be Fire Authority if there there are several organisations sharing a site or HSE if a site occupied only by the builder.

There are also fire safety provisions within the CDM Regs that may also apply depending on the size/ value/ duration of the project. Again these may be enforced by either one of the agencies  depending on the circumstances as explained above.

PS theres an ACOP to the CDM Regs so these prescriptive requirements will have to be considered alongsidde the fire risk assessment

[Mushy]

Thanks Kurnal is an ACOP a code of practice?

[afterburner]

An ACoP is an Approved Code of Practice and it has a quasi legislative imperative in that where an ACoP exists you have to be able to prove you either follwed the ACoP or put into place alterantive risk reduction and risk management provisions which taken together provide an equal standard of protection as if you had followed the ACoP. you will find this statement inside any ACoP in the Introduction.
Code of Practice does not have this legal statement within them but they do have a habit of being refrerred to and quoted when a point needs proven.

[nearlythere]

An ACoP is an Approved Code of Practice and it has a quasi legislative imperative in that where an ACoP exists you have to be able to prove you either follwed the ACoP or put into place alterantive risk reduction and risk management provisions which taken together provide an equal standard of protection as if you had followed the ACoP. you will find this statement inside any ACoP in the Introduction.
Code of Practice does not have this legal statement within them but they do have a habit of being refrerred to and quoted when a point needs proven.

Is there such thing as a list of UK ACsOP?
What actually makes a COP subject to approval? How is it approved? Who approves it?
How do Jacobs get the figs into fig rolls?

[Ricardo]

I can answer a bit of this for you NT,
ACOP's are approved by the HSC with the consent of the S of S, and provide a recognised interpretation of how an employer may comply with the associated legislation. Its not legislation and has no binding force, however it can be cited as evidence and a person who breaks it is likely to be held negligent.

The HSE will at times issue guidance notes, which are purely advisory but generally more practical than that contained in an ACOP.

As for the Jacobs one, I think thats a closely guarded family secret

[nearlythere]

I can answer a bit of this for you NT,
ACOP's are approved by the HSC with the consent of the S of S, and provide a recognised interpretation of how an employer may comply with the associated legislation. Its not legislation and has no binding force, however it can be cited as evidence and a person who breaks it is likely to be held negligent.

The HSE will at times issue guidance notes, which are purely advisory but generally more practical than that contained in an ACOP.

As for the Jacobs one, I think thats a closely guarded family secret

Awe shucks. The mystery surrounding the fig roll continues. That was the important question.
Thanks R. Is there a list?

[Ricardo]

Take a look at this, and see if its any use, cant seem to find one for our shores yet

http://www.hseni.gov.uk/index/information_and_guidance.htm

[Mushy]

So when you do your FRA for a building that is being renovated/refurbished, you do it for the situation as it is then and then do another one when its complete and occupied?

I take it the same criteria is involve in the first FRA...ie means of escape, some type of emergency lighting, fire warning, ffe, evacuation, assembly point, Pat test etc etc

[kurnal]

The FRA during construction phase can be totally different. And of course it can vary during the course of construction. Thats why the interaction with the CDM Regs is critical and the role of the principal contractor so important.

During construction phase theres often less life risk, sometimes less fire loading sometimes more, theres always missing fire resisting construction, different means of escape, temporary alarms and lighting, different emergency plan.

It looks like a licence to print money for the risk assessor. However risk assessments during construction phase are almost unknown. Because most fire brigades are unaware of their duty to enforce the CDM Regs on some sites, and the HSE arent interested in meeting their duties to enforce the Fire Safety Order on construction sites.

The HSE stick to the CDM Regs- in which a fire risk assessment is not even on the agenda- and the Fire Service wrongly  think its someone elses job.

[jokar]

Kurnal, I think you will find that the HSE are the enforcers of the RR(FS)O onnew construction sites whilst the FRS enforce for construction in existing buildings.

[Mushy]

Thanks for your answers fellas...continuing on a bit...lets say its a hotel being completely refurbished or even extended

If you are asked to do a FRA during the refurb/construction stage, would you recommend say fire alarm system, E/L etc at that stage to save them having to do it all again when it is up and running and after the second FRA?

[jokar]

As others have said before, they would have to comply with the CDM regs which covers methods odf detection and warning.  It would depend of course whether the existing building is still occupied or a completely empty site.