Evacuation lifts

[Guest]

I am looking for some information on EVACUATION LIFTS as described in B.S5588 part 8 clause 11.  I want to know who has installed them, background information, the success of the lift, the management procedure put into place and a general opinion.  Spoke to a few lift manufacturers and they are finding difficulty in giving me this information and they direct me to firefighting lifts (which I dont require)

[banjo 2]

Marty, you may find that if you enquire about bed lifts, as in hospitals, you may get a response.  They have to have seperate power supply, extended protected lobby's etc and I would assume the lifts you are looking for would have the same requirements.  However, what circumstamces do you have that requires them? they are extremely costly and  for the able bodied there are cheaper and safer means of escape.

[Ken Taylor]

There still seems to be this lack of information and intent to have these things installed. They must be worth considering for evacuating non 'able-bodied' persons and with increasing non-ambulant disabled access following the introduction of the Disability Discrimination Act we should be planning for workplaces, etc that do not consist of entirely 'able-bodied' persons.

We are just issuing a contract for a new school sports centre which will have one and are planning to have one in a new residential and nursing care facility. Pulling people down stairs in mattresses, carrying people down stairs in wheelchairs, etc, etc or even leaving them in refuges to await the arrival of the fire brigade should no longer be considered acceptable planning for new premises and those able to be adapted to use evacuation lifts. Saving the few thousand pounds involved may not be considered reasonable discrimination for employers well able to meet the cost involved.

Having said this, I suppose we can now await the proposal for an escape chute from our usual contributor!

[Guest]

London Underground use them in the Jubilee Line Extension stations - successfully, I believe.  Different to high-rise - going up, rather than down.  More of a challenge, if anything, I would think.

James Whittaker

[Guest]

In the same vein, why can't firefighting lifts be used for evacuation, (especially for disabled people) prior to the arrival of the fire service? There also appears to be no sustainable reason why, even after the arrival of the fire service, these lifts cannot continue to be used for evacuation purposes as long as this is carried out around the needs of the firefighters.
It seems to me to be faintly ridiculous to have a specially adapted lift, within a suposedly well protected and ventilated fire fighting shaft that carries half a dozen firefighters + gear to the fire floor and then sits there doing nothing. Indeed, many 'refuges' will be in that very shaft so the wheelchair user can sit there slowly broiling while they watch a means of escape whizzing by several times.
Am I missing something?

[Ken Taylor]

My understanding was that they can be used in that way when not required by the firefighters.

[Guest]

This thread has been covered here previously.
Firstly and very importantly, disabled persons or anyone else who requires assistance to escape do not wait in refuges for the Fire Service to arrive and rescue them. The principle of escape here is that a wheelchair e.g. is not being moved down a stair while the main evacuation is taking place. Thats why the refuge is there, the wheelchair user e.g. waits in the refuge until the main phase of evac takes place and then immediately the management should be undertaking the evacuation of any and all who may be in the refuges.
Of course the Fire Service will assist but the primary function is a management issue.
Secondly the lift issue. A firefighting lift can of course be used for the rescue of any person let alone disabled. But you have to understand how these operate. In the normal mode they behave just like any other lift but when placed into firefighting mode it behaves quite differently (still goes up and down mind). e.g. you connot call the lift to any floor, only the car controls work so if a fire crew has taken the lift to say floor ten then thats where it stays until the crew move it. If its not being used for fire fighting purposes use it by all means but in consultation with the Fire Service.
All about pre-planning, Operational Plans and communication and good Fire Management Strategy. After all a fire is an event that needs to be managed effectively. Fail to plan, fail to manage. Prepare for lots of costly damage. Oh, and put sprinklers in!

[Ken Taylor]

I am fully aware of Management's responsibility to evacuate non-ambulant disabled persons. The problem is that many Managers, Designers, Architects, etc are not and plan for refuges to be places for awaiting rescue by the fire brigade. This is why I am keen for means to evacuate disabled persons to be included within the initial design stage of relevant new-build and extensions and, particularly, evacuation lifts.

[colin todd]

I just had to say how much I agreed with Mr Guest's eloquent response. Music to my ears. Was he educated in Scotland?  And I just wish operational firemen would stop telling people, contrary to our advice that disabled people should be left in the building to be rescued by the brigade!

[Guest]

Thank you for your kind comments Colin. However, I am a Fire Officer and educated in Wales, God's country of course!

[colin todd]

Such was the sound advice, so eloquently delivered that I am going to forget the Wales bit. Consider yourself an honorary Scotsman.

[Guest]

Now that I have remembered my log in details Colin, I can reveal myself as more than just a guest.
As I have many friends in Scotland I am proud to be granted honorary citizenship and humbly accept.

[Guest]

It still says guest!

[MShaw]

So much for the Welsh education!!!

[GL]

A failure of the technology obviously.