Smoke detector in bedrooms legislation

[Rocha]

Could someone kindly point me to the right place where it states that smoke detection is required to bedrooms.  It has been a long week and cant find it!!!

Rocha

[wee brian]

There isnt any

[Allen Higginson]

However,some authorities are shying away from the idea of letting the person in the room burn/die of smoke inhalation while keeping the escape routes clear (ie - heat detector).

[jokar]

BS 5839 part 1 2002 +A2 clearly states that HD should be fitted in bedrooms of commercial premises.  There is no recommendation anywhere in the BS that places SD in bedrooms.

[CivvyFSO]

And to add to Jokars comment, the BS actually explains that the intention of detecting bedrooms is NOT to protect the person in the room of origin.

[xan]

And to add to Jokars comment, the BS actually explains that the intention of detecting bedrooms is NOT to protect the person in the room of origin.

which is where that old chestnut rises again-the FSO requires protection of all 'relevant' persons.

[colin todd]

They are not unprotected. It is simply that there is no need for AFd in their room to protect them. I wonder how many I/os have afd in their bedrooms at home. A case of do what I say not as I do that is totally devoid of any risk based considerations.

[CivvyFSO]

I have a detector in my bedroom. Admittedly the main reason for this detector is that I have my 2 year old son in the next room, and I have no desire to die in my sleep and sentence a helpless infant to a similar fate. The quicker I am awake the better position I am in to help.

Xan, re: FSO

Enforcement of Order
     26. —(1) Every enforcing authority must enforce the provisions of this Order and any regulations made under it in relation to premises for which it is the enforcing authority and for that purpose, except where a fire inspector or other person authorised by the Secretary of State is the enforcing authority, may appoint inspectors.

    (2) In performing the duty imposed by paragraph (1), the enforcing authority must have regard to such guidance as the Secretary of State may give it.

Could that be the CLG guidance? If so then it states quite clearly that BS5839 is an acceptable standard. I would rather have SD installed, but I would not try enforce it.

[Allen Higginson]

I have a detector in my bedroom. Admittedly the main reason for this detector is that I have my 2 year old son in the next room, and I have no desire to die in my sleep and sentence a helpless infant to a similar fate. The quicker I am awake the better position I am in to help.

Xan, re: FSO

Enforcement of Order
     26. —(1) Every enforcing authority must enforce the provisions of this Order and any regulations made under it in relation to premises for which it is the enforcing authority and for that purpose, except where a fire inspector or other person authorised by the Secretary of State is the enforcing authority, may appoint inspectors.

    (2) In performing the duty imposed by paragraph (1), the enforcing authority must have regard to such guidance as the Secretary of State may give it.

Could that be the CLG guidance? If so then it states quite clearly that BS5839 is an acceptable standard. I would rather have SD installed, but I would not try enforce it.

Surely then the detector in your bedroom is installed as an audible alarm rather than as a detector to detect a fire in the actual bedroom?To be fair I would mount one in my bedroom for that reason also if I didn't have a part 1 system installed.

[Thomas Brookes]

Thanks to a my local building control I have a full BS5839-1-2002 L1 system in my house.
 
It was a trade off between replacing all the ground floor windows or putting a fire alarm through out.

[nearlythere]

Could someone kindly point me to the right place where it states that smoke detection is required to bedrooms.  It has been a long week and cant find it!!!

Rocha

Rocha. I can point you to the right place which strongly suggests that you should have smoke detection in bedrooms particularily in your own home and especially if you have children. Your conscience.

[devon4ever]

In my opinion, (and I shall limit this response to sleeping accommodation in commercial premises - hotels etc), I interperet the requirement as HD in bedrooms with SD in the MoE, as already discussed in this thread, BS 5839 Part 1; refers to discounting the room of origin, however I have often wondered, (and lets remain in a hotel purpose group), that the rationale behind this was partly influenced by the fact that people were permitted to smoke in the hotel bedroom, the potential for false alarms and wasting FRS attendance resources etc.

More recently, post smoking ban in public places, most hotels are completley smoke free environments including the bedrooms, this could be the opportunity to amend the BS 5839 Part 1; to include SD in bedrooms

[Midland Retty]

They are not unprotected. It is simply that there is no need for AFd in their room to protect them. I wonder how many I/os have afd in their bedrooms at home. A case of do what I say not as I do that is totally devoid of any risk based considerations.

Now Mr Todd I really must protest

Of course we I/Os dont have AFD in all our bedrooms at home, it all boils down to whom has control over the premises.

At home I have control over my own destiny (on the say so of Mrs Retty of course) If I decide not to install smoke detection at home then I take that decision at my own risk.

CivvyFSO however takes the view that he wants additional AFD to safeguard his family. And who would blame him.

The bottom line is that in our own homes we are free to do as we please, and accept any risks we impose on ourselves. We take our chances.

Also I note that there is no legislation requiring me to install AFD in my own single domestic dwelling. So the argument really is a non starter.

It is in premises where we dont have any control that additional safe guards are required. Those safeguards are designed to protect the MOE / other persons not the occupant in the room of origin.  

And of course based on your argument Mr Todd you and your merry band of risk assessors would also be guilty of recommending measures to your clients that you yourselves do not have at home.

[CivvyFSO]

I have a detector in my bedroom. Admittedly the main reason for this detector is that I have my 2 year old son in the next room, and I have no desire to die in my sleep and sentence a helpless infant to a similar fate. The quicker I am awake the better position I am in to help.

Surely then the detector in your bedroom is installed as an audible alarm rather than as a detector to detect a fire in the actual bedroom?To be fair I would mount one in my bedroom for that reason also if I didn't have a part 1 system installed.

No, if there is a fire in my room I do not want to take any risk that I may die in it leaving my 2 year old to await his fate. The unlikeliness of a fire in my bedroom (The only electrical equipment is a baby monitor) would mean that if it was only my life that counted on it I would possibly not bother. As Retty said, I am happy to take my chances, but when other persons lives rely on me then I will adjust my standards accordingly.

[messy]

What confuses me (well most things do, but this in particular), if HD in hotel bedrooms isn't for the occupant, and according to Sir Colin of Toddshire, such detection is not for the punter in the room and never is/has been - why then does BS5839 -1 2002+A2 2008 state in 8.1.2. page 17  


"Alternatively, there might be a need to give enhanced early warning to occupants of certain rooms, such as disabled people, of a fire in their room. In this case, smoke or combustion gas detectors within the rooms are necessary; heat detectors will not respond quickly enough"


So surely despite what has been stated, the BS does refer to the detecion warnig the person in the room.
of origin

It states (paraphrasing) "if there's a NEED ...for early warning....for the punter in the room....use smoke detection"

I reckon there is now a need to protect all relevant persons (and has been since Oct 06) and not just disabled persons. As a result, I would be tempted to quote this part of the BS to support SD over HD every time.

If I have missed or intepreted someting incorrectly, I more than willing to be corrected (and I am sure someone will!!)