30 devices missing due to short circuit in the loop ?

[Benzerari]

Imagine 30 devices missing in a loop that has a short circuit, when opened one of the missing call points, I found in one end short circuit and the other end 24Vdc, I connected back the call point with the legs of 24Vdc, and left the other legs of short circuit disconnected.

In here started some other weird things, the 30 devices missing came back perfectly, but I lost another 30 devices, also some of the devices show states 'normal' but with analogue value '0', also some other detectors shown as missing but their analogue value '23'.

It can't be the loop card as it was flashing just like other three loop cards, what else could be the problem?

Any suggestions?

[Wiz]

Imagine 30 devices missing in a loop that has a short circuit, when opened one of the missing call points, I found in one end short circuit and the other end 24Vdc, I connected back the call point with the legs of 24Vdc, and left the other legs of short circuit disconnected.

In here started some other weird things, the 30 devices missing came back perfectly, but I lost another 30 devices, also some of the devices show states 'normal' but with analogue value '0', also some other detectors shown as missing but their analogue value '23'.

It can't be the loop card as it was flashing just like other three loop cards, what else could be the problem?

Any suggestions?

A lot of explanations might depend on the type of control panel and system protocol.

If the fault reporting is really as weird as you are suggesting, then I would look out for earth faults. Earth faults have provided me with some really strange device fault reporting in the past.

[Benzerari]

Could be! I will see tomorrow, it's an advanced system with Apollo devices, but the system has been recently replaced, the old one I am not sure what it was, the only thing I am sure about it's the old existing Pyro cabling... etc

[Graeme]

Benz

im with wiz as usual and could possible be an earth fault but i would recommend however that you check that you have not muted the fault over 5 times as this locks the fault and even though you have cleared it,it will still show fault until you do a warm start with the reset button to the left of the loop cards on 4200 44400 and 4800 or behind the lcd display on a 4100.

[Galeon]

Is it the panel shutting the loop down on one side or an isolator , I would have out the loop isolators in the field and then start checking the loop out.

[Benzerari]

Benz

im with wiz as usual and could possible be an earth fault but i would recommend however that you check that you have not muted the fault over 5 times as this locks the fault and even though you have cleared it,it will still show fault until you do a warm start with the reset button to the left of the loop cards on 4200 44400 and 4800 or behind the lcd display on a 4100.

Muting the fault 5 times will lock the fault...? This is new to me, I will try proving it next time..., but resetting Advanced panel from the internal reset button, this will wipe out all the info though?

[Benzerari]

Is it the panel shutting the loop down on one side or an isolator , I would have out the loop isolators in the field and then start checking the loop out.

Indeed the short circuit is in one end of the loop by the panel..., the weird things is that the cabling are hidden, there is no way to chasse them, also addresses are not in order, say you have add: 27 in room 301 but add: 28 may be in the other side of the corridor in a different floor... etc

[Graeme]

Benz

im with wiz as usual and could possible be an earth fault but i would recommend however that you check that you have not muted the fault over 5 times as this locks the fault and even though you have cleared it,it will still show fault until you do a warm start with the reset button to the left of the loop cards on 4200 44400 and 4800 or behind the lcd display on a 4100.

Muting the fault 5 times will lock the fault...? This is new to me, I will try proving it next time..., but resetting Advanced panel from the internal reset button, this will wipe out all the info though?

no

[kurnal]

Could be! I will see tomorrow, it's an advanced system with Apollo devices, but the system has been recently replaced, the old one I am not sure what it was, the only thing I am sure about it's the old existing Pyro cabling... etc

Thats good news Benz. Its time you had a real problem to keep that over active mind of yours busy.

[Graeme]

have you checked the panels status in the view option. I would think the panel would show up earth fault but look at the earth monitor and it should sit at about 1.5v. 3.5v and above is a pos to earth fault and -0.4 is a neg to earth fault.


I would also note that if you are working in commission mode then the panel will only drive one way so if you have an o/c-all devices after this o/c will be missing.

[Benzerari]

Benz

im with wiz as usual and could possible be an earth fault but i would recommend however that you check that you have not muted the fault over 5 times as this locks the fault and even though you have cleared it,it will still show fault until you do a warm start with the reset button to the left of the loop cards on 4200 44400 and 4800 or behind the lcd display on a 4100.

Muting the fault 5 times will lock the fault...? This is new to me, I will try proving it next time..., but resetting Advanced panel from the internal reset button, this will wipe out all the info though?

no

Sorry but you are wrong mate

[Benzerari]

Could be! I will see tomorrow, it's an advanced system with Apollo devices, but the system has been recently replaced, the old one I am not sure what it was, the only thing I am sure about it's the old existing Pyro cabling... etc

Thats good news Benz. Its time you had a real problem to keep that over active mind of yours busy.

Indeed I spent 2 days now, trying to find out the short circuit, after opening so many devices to investigate..., and connect them back, the short circuit just disappeared on its own, and now it's rather an open circuit... etc, but all devices came back to normal now ..., good progress though

[Graeme]

Benz

im with wiz as usual and could possible be an earth fault but i would recommend however that you check that you have not muted the fault over 5 times as this locks the fault and even though you have cleared it,it will still show fault until you do a warm start with the reset button to the left of the loop cards on 4200 44400 and 4800 or behind the lcd display on a 4100.

Muting the fault 5 times will lock the fault...? This is new to me, I will try proving it next time..., but resetting Advanced panel from the internal reset button, this will wipe out all the info though?

no

Sorry but you are wrong mate

Sorry but YOU are WRONG mate..... give Advanced a call and ask them

[GregC]

Benz any beam detectors on that loop?

[Benzerari]

Benz any beam detectors on that loop?

Yes about 3 or 4