RR(FS)O Working

[jokar]

The RR(FS)O is working!!! FRS attendance at fires and false alarms was reduced to 803,000 a fall of 8% with false alarms accounting for 419,000 of these.  Fire deaths fell by 5% to 466 of which 323 were in dwellings a fall of 11%.

[Davo]

Jokar

If you do the maths it means deaths other than dwellings is up- now 143, then 130 or so
methinks the detector gig is kicking in

davo

[colin todd]

Nothing to do with the RRO alas.

[davidandrewsuk]

In the words of Homer Simpson.

"Statistics can prove anything, 96% of all people know that."

[SmokeyDokey]

Nothing to do with the RRO alas.

So what do you put the ongoing reduction in the number of primary in non-domestic premises down to then CT?
Increased rain and cold snaps through global warming? Or the sterling work of risk assesors and fire professionals such as your good self?

[nearlythere]

Nothing to do with the RRO alas.

So what do you put the ongoing reduction in the number of primary in non-domestic premises down to then CT?
Increased rain and cold snaps through global warming? Or the sterling work of risk assesors and fire professionals such as your good self?

I would suggest SD that the FRA process has had an effect as it takes into consideration hazardous situations and the implimenation of control measures to prevent fires. Quite a difference to the former when we enforced the means of warning, firefighting, and escape only regardless of what went on.

[AM]

Nothing to do with the RRO alas.

So what do you put the ongoing reduction in the number of primary in non-domestic premises down to then CT?

I know the brigade I worked for were looking at how they recorded attendances in order to meet targets...sorry 'improve accuaracy'.

[colin todd]

101 different things, none of which have a jot to do with the FSO.

[SmokeyDokey]

OK, so assuming that number one of the 101 is Sir Colin and the great anti-FSO crusade (dragons, errant civil servants and inspecting officers slayed by request). Could you enlightlen us all about some of the other 100?

[CivvyFSO]

If there is no impact on yearly figures then surely that is down to incompetent risk assessors?

After all, all we do is enforce whatever legislation is put in front of us. I do know that many more companies now have risk assessments as opposed to the pre-RRO days, so this clearly means that people with risk assessments must still be having fires, so maybe it IS the consultants that are to blame? 

[Chris Houston]

My personal option is that most of the risk assessments that I have seen are rubbish.

Many of the ones that have been done by consultants are rubbish.  Many of the people who are paid to do risk assessments are not good at it.

I think this is partly the fault of the government for not regulating the fire safety industry and partly the fault of the employers for not vetting who they contract to undertake risk assessments and partly the fault of people who should know they are not competant to do risk assessments.

I think it is unfair to tarnish all consultants with the same brush.  Like employers, there are also many good ones.

[Clevelandfire 3]

I have truly missed this forum. We have someone moaning that the RRO is the worst thing since sliced bread in another thread only to appear on this one saying its working and having a measurable affect.

To Colin Todd. You dont know me but I have attended one of your courses.We are one of those  brigades who actually paid for some one who loathes the english fire service to deliver training to us and point out the errors of our ways and re programme us. Very intereesting indeed. If I recall you were never one to keep quiet about anything fire safety related particularly when it came to enforcement. Please spell out the 101 your reasons why the RRO isn't working. Please educate us and I dont mean that sarcastically I am genuinely interested to know. I am always eager to learn and hear other's viewpoints even if it is at odds with my own.

 

[SmokeyDokey]

OK, so assuming that number one of the 101 is Sir Colin and the great anti-FSO crusade (dragons, errant civil servants and inspecting officers slayed by request). Could you enlightlen us all about some of the other 100?

Colin, our venerable administrator and keeper of fair play has pointed out to me that my post could be take an a personal slight or attack on Colin. I am suitably chastised.

Colin, if you read it that way please accept my apologies and be assured that I did not intend that. I am genuinly intetrested to know your thinking on the reductions recently highlighted through the CLG stats.

[nearlythere]

My personal option is that most of the risk assessments that I have seen are rubbish.

Many of the ones that have been done by consultants are rubbish.  Many of the people who are paid to do risk assessments are not good at it.

I think this is partly the fault of the government for not regulating the fire safety industry and partly the fault of the employers for not vetting who they contract to undertake risk assessments and partly the fault of people who should know they are not competant to do risk assessments.

I think it is unfair to tarnish all consultants with the same brush.  Like employers, there are also many good ones.

What is it about the rubbish FRAs Chris that you think makes them so? I have seem many RAs both in the out of the F&R Service and apart from the obvious "rubbish" ones they can vary in format and content depending on how the author interprets the legislation. I have seen ones written by persons I would have thought should be pretty good. In my opinion they fell well short of what I consider to be an assessment of issues of concern in relation to fire safety in the workplace and how they can be resolved, which basically is what I think a FRA should be.
Some FRAers think it is sufficient to point out deficiencies and defects and record that they should be fixed.
Maybe that is sufficient to satisfy the F&R Service audit and maybe I am going way over the top, but a Fire Risk Assessment by a professional assessor should be much more than just a report of failings.

[kurnal]

OK, so assuming that number one of the 101 is Sir Colin and the great anti-FSO crusade (dragons, errant civil servants and inspecting officers slayed by request). Could you enlightlen us all about some of the other 100?

Colin, our venerable administrator and keeper of fair play has pointed out to me that my post could be take an a personal slight or attack on Colin. I am suitably chastised.

Colin, if you read it that way please accept my apologies and be assured that I did not intend that. I am genuinly intetrested to know your thinking on the reductions recently highlighted through the CLG stats.

Hey lets not get too wrapped up in kid gloves.  Most of us on the forum who sometimes make a spirited argument and pointed comment    are quite happy - indeed hope- for a bit of sport in return, I thought your posting was spot on smokey.