Why not to use powder if secondary damage is an issue

[AnthonyB]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cambridgeshire/7859620.stm

Looking at the photo's, if they'd used water extinguishers (as I understand some church guidance suggests) then thousands of pounds would have become just a few quid.

[John Dragon]

None of the churches that we look after have any powder extinguishers, as I understand it, it is a requirement of Ecclesiastical Insurance that only water and CO2 be fitted in churches. (not seen that in writing tho). We have been told this by quite a few different churches/parishes.

[afterburner]

Assuming these DP extinguishers needed to purchased and installed. Who advised this church to install dry powder extinguishers? (and I don't mean names of the actual person) but was it a 'Fire Safety Consultant' (there's a broad brush description that keeps recurring on the Forum), or a well intentioned 'Committee' of parishoners trying to do their best to manage a church (building and assets).   

[nearlythere]

Assuming these DP extinguishers needed to purchased and installed. Who advised this church to install dry powder extinguishers? (and I don't mean names of the actual person) but was it a 'Fire Safety Consultant' (there's a broad brush description that keeps recurring on the Forum), or a well intentioned 'Committee' of parishoners trying to do their best to manage a church (building and assets).   

AB. I see a lot of DP extinguishers in places where they just should not be and they are not old ones. Is it because DPs are the most expensive?

[Psuedonym]

That could be a good point NearlyThere. I think we are pretty much in agreement regarding the distribution of DP's, but there are a lot of ignorant/unscrupuless "engineers" out there out for as much comm as possible regardless of risk or suitability as they are sold as a multipurpose unit.

[AnthonyB]

AB. I see a lot of DP extinguishers in places where they just should not be and they are not old ones. Is it because DPs are the most expensive?

Depends - with the advent of the internet & also non specialist stockists (such as Tool, PPE & Signage suppliers) they may not have been specified by a consultant or specialist supplier and so the purchaser just sees a way to need less extinguishers (due to the ABCE rating of D/P).

Also Kidde (domestic products branch) are selling Gloria D/P  extinguishers that are reusable and require servicing as 'maintenance free' despite being nothing of the sort.

[messy]

It also doesn't help that many extinguisher companies are offering and completing FRAs with significant findings which more resemble a dubious sales technique than a proper assessment of risk .

Significant findings have recommended a wet chemical extinguisher in a small community hall with no frying equipment, expensive DP everywhere, over provision of FFE (including a single staircase office building with a footprint of <150m2, with 4 water extinguishers per floor) and of course, fire extinguisher signs described as 'compulsory'.

The last FRA I saw from a FFE company that contained so much nonsense was even signed by a guy who described himself as "Senior Sales Manager". Well at least the RP can trust that bit of the FRA (along with the address of the premises) as being perhaps the only bit of truth in the whole document!

[John Webb]

The Eccesiastical Insurance Office (EIO) issued a letter to all the churches they insure some 18 months ago after a previous vandalism incident in which a DP extinguisher was discharged. The clean-up from this cost them some £250,000 including scaffolding to remove all traces of the powder from stonework and repair of the church organ.

EIO allow the use of AFFF spray and 'Hydrospray' type extinguishers as well as plain water and CO₂ extinguishers.

For the information of Firenet readers, the recently-formed IFE Heritage Special Interest Group has agreed that guidence on fire safety in churches is needed as a matter of some urgency, so EH, EIO and myself are putting our heads together and hope to publish something later this year.

[jokar]

BRE have done it for you, issued 29 January 2009.

[John Webb]

Thanks for that, Jokar - I picked up the other posting about it 5 mins after posting the above!

I'll be popping across to BRE later this week to get a copy and hopefully to see the few of my former colleagues who are still working there.

I'll post a resume of the publication as soon as I can.