Author Topic: New Guide Places of Worship  (Read 28385 times)

Offline kurnal

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Re: New Guide Places of Worship
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2009, 07:27:38 AM »
Interesting that for existing buildings Churches tend to be considered a special case but for new buildings they are lumped into the same purpose group as assembly buildings.

On the one hand they can be considered Large volume open spaces with relatively little fire loading. On the other hand not many other assembly buildings conduct public tours of the roof spaces with enormous travel distances, often no separation and little communication.

Many have numerous inner rooms, different uses such as meetings, playgroups etc, sometimes concurrent sometimes not, so alarm and detection requirements are variable. Property protection is paramount as well as life safety.

Invariably all exit doors are inward opening- at times of peak use I always recommend the positioning of stewards on these doors.

Most do not have emergency lighting- this is a must. For those that are likely to attract large numbers of visitors- rather than worshippers- exit signs are important. Often but not invariably worshippers will be focussed and can be directed.

I thik the only way to deal with these buildings is to consider a fire in any scenario and the range of likely causes, then calculate the time lines that would arise- ASET / RSET, and this should be stressed as part of any new guidance..   

Offline John Webb

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Re: New Guide Places of Worship
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2009, 11:10:39 AM »
I think existing churches are mostly built before Building Regulations were applicable - modern churches have to comply with ADB, and therefore are reasonably like any other recent assembly buildings; likewise church halls can be split between those of some age and others of more recent construction in which the requirements of the BRs are included, hence the differences in approach between older and newer buildings.

The biggest problem I come across is the usual one of 'Is this all really necessary? - It's not going to happen to us.' mentality. So the IFE guide will include some graphic examples of where precautions failed and the building was lost which I hope will open a few eyes.

I have to say that those in my Diocese that have been stirred by the RR(FS)O and have asked me for advice do seem to be trying to make the best of it, but that's only about 5% of the 400 churches - I hope the other 95% are doing something as well.....
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: New Guide Places of Worship
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2009, 11:16:07 AM »
You could get a job as all the different church's fire engineer. Surely that should buy you some brownie points in heaven/paradise/reincarnation/hades. Bearing in mind that if you end up in hell you might be seen as someone who has been working against the desires of your new guardian, and as such you might spend eternity in a room on the top floor of a 250 storey hotel with a single stair and a poorly maintained fire engineering solution to protect the stair.

Offline John Webb

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Re: New Guide Places of Worship
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2009, 03:06:04 PM »
Several of the other churches do have their fire advisers - I've exchanged quite a bit of chat with the Methodist gentleman who does for all 4000+ of their churches what I do for 400. It was he who put together the FRA guide I refered to in an earlier post; he's ex-Fire Service, though I don't recall which one he was in before he retired.
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline Badrill

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Re: New Guide Places of Worship
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2009, 10:53:27 AM »
I am thinking of offering a number of free seminars on fire safety to places of worship, which will cover, nature of fire, raising the alarm. extinguisher etc and much more, and maybe a certificate of attendence. I would welcome any comments.

Offline John Webb

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Re: New Guide Places of Worship
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2009, 05:45:37 PM »
Hi, badrill.

My main concern is that the older the church, the less likely people are to know about physical defects that could exist in their buildings which could allow unexpectedly rapid spread of smoke and fire. In particular concealed (and undivided) voids in floors, wall and ceilings/roofs need to be looked for; advice should be sought from the churchs' architects who may or may not have this sort of knowledge.

My second concern is that in listed buildings in particular good management of the fire risk can reduce or eliminate 'over the top' demands for fire alarms, signs etc. This is one matter which the RR(FS)O does allow some leeway on - see Appendix 'C' of a number of the Guides.

My third concern is for those churches with attached halls/centres. These can often need careful consideration of the ways in which different activities can interact between the church and the hall, particularly when the latter is being used by outside parties when there is also something happening in the church.

'Commonsense' I think is the key watchword; second to that is the need to convince those responsible for church buildings that it can happen to them and they need to be prepared.

Hope this helps.
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline John Webb

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Re: New Guide Places of Worship
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2009, 08:21:20 PM »
Just an update - the IFE Heritage Special Interest Group met today and we are getting on with our guide. The emphasis is altered slightly in that it will be aimed more specifically at listed church buildings, where it seems the biggest problems are, rather than all places of worship, Christian or other faiths. But it should still be useful to to the latter group. No timetable for publication yet.

There was general agreement in the Group that the BRE publication was unsatisfactory!
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)