Criminal Record.

[rainman]

I am currently going through the recruitment process and am just about to hand in my application. I am (like most people who apply) desperate to be susccessful. I am highly fit and love the sound of everything involved in the position. However, I have 1 flaw. I was at a football game last year and was wrongly arrested for throwing a coin at a steward. I saw the tape in court and the way it was angled did look like I threw it. The result was a £500 fine. £300 for Assault and £200 for breach of the peace (shouting and swearing-yes at a football match). I am worried how this will be taken in my application. I know it says, a conviction does not automatically disqualify you but it will be judged on it's own merits. Can anybody tell me or advise me on how this will be taken?

[burgermuncher999]

Contact the Head of Human Resources at the Fire Authority you are seeking to apply to. They should give you all the advice you need.

[dave bev]

rainman - i will take your post at face value and will 'accept' your explanation in order to help you with the suggestion that you may want to consider looking at the rehabilitation of offenders act6. there are time scales after which no declaration is required. the act exists for a reason - it is to give people a second chance

[fireftrm]

Shouting seems entirely reasonable, as for swearing at a football match (your way  of wording suggests you think this was not unreasonable)- why should being at a football match make this anti-social behaviour acceptable?

As far as I am aware the fine would be a 'spent' conviction after 5 years.

I would regard to to the actual conviction, I like Dave will 'accept' your story, however I am sorry but my opinion is that no application panel would be likely to. Unfortunately the court didn't so it seems reasonable to assume that no other group would.

I would go ahead with the application and await their comments, but be prepared to have to re-apply after the conviction is spent, sorry. Also avoid swearing and loud, demonstrably 'breach of the peace' behaviour anywhere, and - yes - even at football matches.

Is it interesting that swearing and shouting and general ASB behaviour is extremely unusual at rugby matches.......................

[burgermuncher999]

Unfair to use the comparison with rugby in as much as virtually all of the boisterous drink fuelled sessions i have between involved in as both player and supporter (of the gentelmans game) have involved the singing of profanity, albeit with no maliscious intent to any other party.
Yes there is an absence of spectator violence at rugby matches but no doubt much of what is sung and done in the name of 'joshing' around would constitute ASB in the minds of those who live in proverbial glass houses. Don't label what this chap says he did with the pc tag of ASB. ASB relates to something much more sinister and to my mind intimidating.
Question, at a soccer match is it truly ASB to question the parenatge of an opposition player or refer to the ref as a w@#k*r. Or a we trying once again to emasculate the working classes who give vent to their spleen for one day a week at a football match.
I can't stand pc and don't like to see it used in this way to undermine the actions of the individual who posed the question. As for guilt or otherwise i don't know i wasn't there. What i would say is do his stated actions in anyway make him exempt from having the potential to be an exemplary Firefighter or role model to society in the uniform of the service.
Best of luck mate.

[rainman]

Thanks for your replies guys. I realise that there is no excuse that will take away from this conviction. I wouldn't be putting an excuse on the form. I put it down here as I wanted an honest opinion of my chances. I realise that being found guilty in a court of law is the end of the matter and that is what will be taken into consideration. There would be no reason for me to lie on this forum as all I wanted was honest opinions. Thanks for your opinions and advice. I will definately look into it further.

On the point of ASB, I didn't think of it as being put in this bracket, it was seperate to the missile throwing incident and was added in as charge after I was arrested. The shouting was at a member of the team I was supporting and was taken as shouting at the steward the missile was aimed at. Doesn't reallymatter now, i'll have to live with it for the rest of my life. A very embarrassing episode for myself and my family.

[Chris Houston]

I think once convictions are spent (is it 5 years? - maybe differs for offences) you don't need to tell employers about them and it is maybe even illegal for them to ask.  I think they ask if you have any "unspent convictions".  So check the rules before you tell them something you don't need to.
_____________________________

This is not legal advice.  If you want legal advice consult a lawyer.

[rainman]

I think once convictions are spent (is it 5 years? - maybe differs for offences) you don't need to tell employers about them and it is maybe even illegal for them to ask.  I think they ask if you have any "unspent convictions".  So check the rules before you tell them something you don't need to.
_____________________________

This is not legal advice.  If you want legal advice consult a lawyer.

Yeah, just checked the rehabilitation of offenders act6. It's 5 years for any fine. So I've still got 4 years unspent to go. I would have to tell them just now. Just out of interest, if I was asked to re-apply once it was spent, would they look at my previous application and see the conviction on that. I would've thought that was illegal but my application could be flagged? Can anybody help?

Thanks for your help Chris.

[fireftrm]

Chris

They should not re-examine the previous conviction information, after all that is the point of it being spent.

I am impressed that you have taken the right attitude to the matter and hope you do well in the future. It may be that the FRS concerned allows your application to proceed and good luck with that. Keep smiling - 4 years sounds like a long time but soon goes by. In the meantime look for opportunities to improve your CV for the FRS - such as community group involvement, voluntary work with the FRS (such as Young Firefighter's Association Instructors) and maybe (depending on your age) a course at a FE College in Public Services, there are BTECs and higher qualifications in this. Search your local colleges website for Public Services and they should have a course.

[rainman]

Chris

They should not re-examine the previous conviction information, after all that is the point of it being spent.

I am impressed that you have taken the right attitude to the matter and hope you do well in the future. It may be that the FRS concerned allows your application to proceed and good luck with that. Keep smiling - 4 years sounds like a long time but soon goes by. In the meantime look for opportunities to improve your CV for the FRS - such as community group involvement, voluntary work with the FRS (such as Young Firefighter's Association Instructors) and maybe (depending on your age) a course at a FE College in Public Services, there are BTECs and higher qualifications in this. Search your local colleges website for Public Services and they should have a course.

Thanks a lot. I will definately look into some voluntary work just now. I knew applying for jobs would be the main problem with this offence. Thanks for your help.

[making a difference]

rainman

They will not re-examine your previous application and if they did they would not be able to act upon it. Unless in one application you said you were European and in the other Asian. I also agree with fireftrm go for all the courses possible and become a volunteer. If you live near the coast join your local lifeboat.

The above represents my personal opinions only.