Author Topic: Disposal of powder & Afff ??  (Read 15148 times)

Offline Thomas Brookes

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Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« on: March 04, 2009, 07:19:21 PM »
Hello Chaps,

Im getting sick of paying a certain company to dispose of my old afff and powder extinguishers.


Presently we send the full extinguishers by the palet load to one of the big companies I think they charge £1.70 per extinguisher.
Has any one got any better ways (and im talking legal ones) or machinery or addertives for the foam etc etc.
I have asked round and I have been told you can put three down a fowl waste drain (however thats not much use if I have 50 foams to get rid of if you see what I mean.

So i am open to idea's.
I refuse to have a battle of wittts with an unarmed person.

Offline TFEM

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 08:41:05 AM »
I also would appreciate some other views on this subject...for 20 odd years we have all been telling everyone that AFFF is the way to go as it is better at dealing with Class A fires and is safer to the user in the event of inadvertant discharge onto live electrical equipment and now, all of a sudden, just as with Halon, it has become a monster. I understand that we cannot go polluting waterways with masses of toxic chemicals but how are we all now supposed to be able to carry out the servicing procedures correctly ie 5 yearly discharge testing? You cannot discharge a 6 litre foam successfully into a 25 litre container so what size container will we have to have on the service vehicles to dispose of the contents from 10/15/20 units that need testing?
Some companies I am aware of are telling customers that 5 year old foam extinguishers need to be replaced...not sure how this works if they are selling Amerex units with 10 year warranties!
Are there any truly environmentally friendly foam compounds in the pipeline that would solve this problem?(but then of course we will be refilling an extinguisher with a "non-approved" medium).
There seems to be little guidance from manufacturers and only threats of £20 000 fines from the water authorities.
Perhaps manufacturers could say that discharge testing is no longer required (it has always seemed a bit of a pointless excercise to me to say "yes, that extinguisher would have worked if you had needed it in the last 5 years" and it should work in the next 5 years!) Although the downside to this is that a lot of service companies make a lot of money out of discharge testing.
Any other thoughts???   

Offline Thomas Brookes

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 03:33:21 PM »
After getting no where really fast Ive been doing a bit more digging around.

From what I can find, with AFFF you need to add an anti foam agent and then filter through a Activated carbon filter.

then you need to incinerate the carbon to get rid.

I can not believe I am the only person with this problem, what do the rest of you do with your old foam !!
I refuse to have a battle of wittts with an unarmed person.

Offline nearlythere

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 05:16:59 PM »
After getting no where really fast Ive been doing a bit more digging around.

From what I can find, with AFFF you need to add an anti foam agent and then filter through a Activated carbon filter.

then you need to incinerate the carbon to get rid.

I can not believe I am the only person with this problem, what do the rest of you do with your old foam !!
You could always boil it down to a gel, bottle it and sell it on as foam bath.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Online AnthonyB

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 11:10:00 PM »
Having seen the company in questions Recycling plant in operation & knowing the cost of maintaining the status of an approved handler/carrier/disposer of controlled waste £1.70 isn't that bad, - we just pass on the cost to the originator if not our own training stuff that's end of life.

Discharge testing is far more than just 'it works' (if you don't know why then are you maintaining kit correctly?) & besides these other reasons there are some critical failures that cannot be detected by servicing can only be discovered by discharge - it's there for a reason!

Phasing out AFFF by natural wastage with Eco-foams is the only way ahead long term, but until more people use these the cost makes them not as competitive - & whilst we buy lots of pre filled Chinese stuff where Eco-friendly doesn't exist as a concept it won't change soon.

It's fact that if you want to dispose of waste in a legitimate way you have to pay - it's been the case with other chemicals & substances and equipment for years now and it was bound to catch up with fire fighting agents.

Don't start me with the absolute tosh that service companies come out with to flog kit, I'd be here all year!
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Offline Thomas Brookes

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 06:55:22 AM »
Found this company anyone used them or know what the costs are.  http://www.foamclean.co.uk/solution.htm

Anthony,
Im not against paying for disposal assuming we are both talking about the same big company I used to work for them and although their hype and marketing is great the things that happen in the field are far from good practice. We have all seen the youtube clip of one of their engineers spraying many foams all over a  out door car park to discharge test them. If anyone want a copy ive got one. Any how I personally would rather give my money to other companies if possible.
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Online AnthonyB

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 06:02:48 PM »
I see your point, although if the stuff reaches the Recycling Centre it is properly dealt with.

Apparently Jewel-Saffire are going to offer Environmental disposal as the Saffire plant apparently has the facilities for this, so they may be a handy alternative.

Express & PJ Fire do a bit of disposal as well which I have used, but I'm not sure of their process although PJ Fire have an agreement with a licensed waste site.
Anthony Buck
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Offline Psuedonym

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 08:38:55 PM »
Don't Express use TG? They used to get rid of my kit FOC and I used them as my sole supplier, it was a means of a good business relationship. I haven't dealt with Exts for a while now so their policies could have changed but still advice Express as a decent supplier with a good attitude.  :)
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Online AnthonyB

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 12:20:07 AM »
I believe they do for certain things - this may include their disposals, but not sure. As long as you aren't dumping pallet loads they've always been happy to take a few off you for free which is very handy.
Anthony Buck
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Offline Thomas Brookes

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 07:44:11 PM »
Just to keep anyone interested informed, after getting no where fast I have managed to get some information.

Thomas Glover will take any size extinguishers any type for £1.90 plus vat each.
Saffire will take powders any size for £2.50 plus vat each
Foamclean will let you have a 1000 ltr tank (£250 set up charge) and then come and do a swap service when its full and charge you £0.40 per litre plus vat.
There another company who will take your powder on a simular set up for £0.30 per kilo plus vat.


So all in all unfortunately Thomas Glover are the cheapest I can find. unless someone else know different
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Offline nim

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2009, 08:02:29 PM »
We have started to use a company who provide a container (which is most probably 10m long) and they charge £1 per extinguisher regardless of what the contents are. Next week I will find out who they are.

Online AnthonyB

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2009, 09:41:05 PM »
Been to PJ Fire this week - as well as their traditional offering of CO2 refurbishment & manufacture (Kitemarked with Luxfer cylinders) they offer a range of kitemarked extinguishers (own brand), but more importantly a proper audit trailed Environmental Disposal - they already do this for UK Fire and several others.

Don't have the price but give Peter or Jon a ring on 01246 266090

http://www.pjfire.co.uk/

If you aren't near their depot in Chesterfield they have a UK wide scheduled van service that will collect.
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Offline Thomas Brookes

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2009, 09:54:45 PM »
Thanks for the information most apriciated
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Offline The Reiver

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Re: Disposal of powder & Afff ??
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2009, 02:08:32 PM »
Found this company anyone used them or know what the costs are.  http://www.foamclean.co.uk/solution.htm

And I thought you diligently attended BFC meetings. Have you not heard him waffle on (constantly if given the chance) about the subject. Maybe you were hung over and asleep like me when his scouse lilt echoed through the room.

We have all seen the youtube clip of one of their engineers spraying many foams all over a  out door car park to discharge test them. If anyone want a copy ive got one

I'll take a copy. Never did get around to ripping the thing from YT before Chubb paid the author off to remove it.
You should put it up there again. I loved the responses first time around. May be profitable too.
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