Author Topic: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system  (Read 10989 times)

Offline The Colonel

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Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« on: March 12, 2009, 11:05:04 PM »
Has anyone had any experiance of routine checking and testing of the Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system, its a fixed installation of a wet chemical extinguishing system usually installed above cookers and deep fat fryers in kitchens.

A particular client installs the system into portable kitchen modules for use by armed forces, event caterers etc and is questioning servicing etc.

1. Do any of you have any guidelines to sericing these systems and could enlighten me on what is   required.

2.Could these systems be checked and serviced by the hirer on site if guidance was given.

3. Could the client obtain training on servicing the systems and are you aware of what is deemed competent.

Having looked at the system spec and spoken to the supplier Tyco I am of the opinion that only a trained service person should handle such systems for the 6 month service but that suitable visual inspection could be undertaken by the person hiring the unit pershaps???

Any experiance, guidance and your advice would be very welcome.

Offline dark one

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 07:02:21 PM »
Im not a expert on these but we use a subcontractor to service any we come across. I think you need some specialist knowledge to deal with these The fuseable links have to be a certain temp rating and replaced at each visit the nozzeles are specific to the part they are covering. You need a special cocking tool to rearm the sytem when service is completed.
I would agree leave it to an expert.

Chris Houston

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2009, 03:40:36 PM »
I told my clients to service them as per the Loss Prevention Standard.  more info: www.redbooklive.com

Offline Thomas Brookes

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 10:03:56 PM »
Ansul in my opinion are a nightmare (not the product but the managing agents) they are not keen on letting others service there equipment or training them to do so.
Amerex do a system more or less on the same principals and they will train you on it, also you can then get all the Ansul service parts from them.
I refuse to have a battle of wittts with an unarmed person.

Offline The Colonel

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 10:22:40 PM »
Gents, thanks for your comments I have passed them on.

Offline The Reiver

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 01:35:31 PM »
Sorry for arriving late. out and about too much at the moment.

Colonel. I am an Ansul R-102 guy. If you or your client wishes any info then get in touch. I can forward you system specs, visual inspection check lists and owners docs but the maintenance should be carried out (six monthly) by an authorised company.

Tyco have invested heavily in LPCB 3rd party accreditation for the R-102 System. It is their aim to register every system in the UK with the LPCB too. If an unauthorised (incompetant) person messes with the system then all warranties, approvals, third party accreditation and therefore any subsequent perceived liability for failure to operate etc. is deemed null and void by them.

Ansul (Tyco Fire Suppression & Building Products) are only a "nightmare" to those they won't entertain. I get on fine with them. Their limited amount of distributors keeps pricing structures at a reasonable level. Or maybe some would like to see fixed kitchen fire suppression take the same downward spiralling route into the gutter as the hand portable extinguisher industry.

Amerex have been known to supply R-102 parts in the past (via the USA Brooks Catologue) I was informed that they'd stopped. But it matters little if they haven't. The above still applies. If the service vendor is not an Ansul R-102 trained, certificated and authorised distributor, then said service vendor is not competant to carry out the work.
If copy parts have been sourced from elsewhere then non-competant persons will have sourced them and fitted them.

And let's be honest. If you don't know the maximum height and minimum aim perameters for a 245 discharge nozzle on a split vat fryer (*). What the heck are you going near the things for in the first place.

(*) example only, Pseudonym need not answer  :P
 
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Offline The Colonel

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 05:07:12 PM »
Reiver

Thanks for the info, I shall pass it on as it is important. I have sent you a personal mesage PM

The Colonel

Offline Psuedonym

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2009, 09:34:03 PM »
 ::)

Aw go on..  :'( let me have a bash!! Single nozzle: Med Prox 20-27in Ht, 15x14in with or without D/B, along perimeter with midpoint aim?

Sorry, couldn't resist!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2009, 09:59:28 PM by Psuedonym »
Ansul R102 Kitchen Suppression Enthusiast


Created using refurbished electrons to ensure I do my bit to save the planet...Polar bear cubs saved so far:2.75. Reduced due to effects of Carbon Footprint on the carpet. It's a bugger to shift...

Offline The Reiver

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 01:56:47 PM »
::)

Aw go on..  :'( let me have a bash!! Single nozzle: Med Prox 20-27in Ht, 15x14in with or without D/B, along perimeter with midpoint aim?

Sorry, couldn't resist!


ULEX 3470, Revision 6, Figure 16, page 4-8. Would have sufficed  ;D
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Offline The Reiver

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 04:33:52 PM »
Colonel. Did you get the stuff ?

Recovered or Lost ?

Not sure how we ended up as I was in and out of meetings all day.
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Offline The Colonel

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 05:19:06 PM »
Reiver

Managed to recover all documents, thanks for your help

The Colonel

Offline kurnal

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 10:00:50 AM »
Amerex have been known to supply R-102 parts in the past (via the USA Brooks Catologue) I was informed that they'd stopped. But it matters little if they haven't. The above still applies. If the service vendor is not an Ansul R-102 trained, certificated and authorised distributor, then said service vendor is not competant to carry out the work.
If copy parts have been sourced from elsewhere then non-competant persons will have sourced them and fitted them.


That sounds similar to the car manufacturers stance that was overturned in the European Courts as unfair trading practice.

Offline The Reiver

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Re: Ansul R 102 Resturant kitchen suppresion system
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 03:03:35 PM »
That sounds similar to the car manufacturers stance that was overturned in the European Courts as unfair trading practice.

A fair comparison (and one close to my heart too, being an R33 GTR owner. Scouring the country for car parts is such a wonderful time filler)  ;D

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that issue made it to the EU Courts.

I believe it was a 2004 UK Office Of Fair Trading report, with the background threat of an EU Competition Law combined with the EC Cars Block Exemption Regulation, rather than an actual full blown court case.

I see some similarities between the two things but some major differences too.

To maintain warranties I believe the car issue now relies on manufacturers genuine parts being used and the vehicle being maintained to the "same standard" as a manufacturers' dealership would. Your guess is as good as mine as to how this is monitored within the "independent" motor trade. It probably only can be after a fatality or a serious RTA when the vehicle is then meticulously examined by the experts.

Or maybe the hurriedly brought in OFT Consumer Codes Approval Scheme (CCAS) Codes Of Practice, which it is now begging the independent motor trade to join (at a substantial cost) will be the answer. :D
Yup, the OFT opened the door, now you've got to pay it lots to walk through.

But here's the big difference. The car manufacturers were already selling genuine parts to the whole motor trade, not just their franchised dealerships. It was the car manufacturers who shafted the dealerships by not closing the shop on their parts availability.
The car manufacturer always wins as their parts have to be initially purchased through them via a motor factor or dealership. However there is no law forcing them to do this. It is purely profit motivated. You cannot legally force any manufacturer to sell to an open market. They can legally choose who they want to sell to.

Strange now that since 2004 some manufacturers are now only selling genuine parts for new models to their dealerships, which then have to be further purchased by the independent garage or factor. Many have also won "intellectual rights" over new software and won't be issuing it to the independent motor trade but only to trained and qualified (dealership) mechanics. Nothing the OFT or EU can do about it.

However in the Tyco / Ansul scenario the manufacturer has already stated who it sells its' genuine parts to. They are only made available to distributors. There is no other parts distribution network in existence and legally Tyco don't have to provide one. There are no other training courses but theirs and again they can legally invite who they like to attend.
Also, they (as any other company can) can legally refuse to set you up a purchase / credit account. If that latter comment is a restrictive practice, then we're all up in court next tuesday.
 
Copy and "similar" parts are available (as they are for just about anything these days) and I'm sure old second hand Installation / Maintenance Manuals could be sourced. Heck I've got 5 out of date ones sat in my office.
Anyone is free to have a go from that angle as they are with anything else in our trade. The more the merrier if you ask me.
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