Author Topic: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?  (Read 8588 times)

Offline natdan

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Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« on: May 28, 2009, 07:27:51 PM »
Gents,

A wholesalers have enquired about the need for a fire alarm off the back off a FRA.  I thought I would ask the panel.

A tool hire centre with a small shop 12x12 with a managers office.  The warehouse is at the back (attached).  There is now only 1 entrance/exit as the fire door has been locked shut for security issues and the signage removed.  The trvel distances from the furthest point is 38 meters. 

The FRA has called for emergency lighting in all areas due to insufficent lighting in the event of a power failiure and has called for a fire alarm on escape routes.

Can anybody help?

Offline Allen Higginson

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Re: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 07:55:22 PM »
I assume that the sole entrance/exit is the front door into the showroom?
The fact that someone has taken the decision to lock a designed emergency exit leaving a travel distance of over one hundred feet would "concern" me a little and would increas the need for a fire alarm system to faciliate a safe escape route through the showroom from back of the warehouse.

Offline natdan

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Re: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 08:01:03 PM »
The extended travel distance is the reason given to have the fire alarm system.  The building would only ever have 5 people in maximum and yes the entrance/exit is the front door with a roller shutter door operated when machinary is being removed.

My opinion would be to bring the exit back live and sort out the security measures but if this was not as cost effective as the fire alarm scenario are they within their rights to go down this route?

I am an electrician so am happy to install but with it being a friend I thought I would aks the question.  The brigade are quite big on audits in greater Manchester so he wants it right first time.

Offline Allen Higginson

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Re: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 08:30:58 PM »
The extended travel distance is the reason given to have the fire alarm system.  The building would only ever have 5 people in maximum and yes the entrance/exit is the front door with a roller shutter door operated when machinary is being removed.

My opinion would be to bring the exit back live and sort out the security measures but if this was not as cost effective as the fire alarm scenario are they within their rights to go down this route?

I am an electrician so am happy to install but with it being a friend I thought I would aks the question.  The brigade are quite big on audits in greater Manchester so he wants it right first time.
Who will be doing the design spec and associated certs thereafter?I'm not being picky (I'll leave that to others!) but there will be a certain amount of documentation needed and you want to be sure that you are getting it right before signing anything off.

Offline kurnal

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Re: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 07:41:09 AM »
It sounds to me like that sealed up fire exit is required and should be re-opened.

Otherwise there is, (compared to national benchmark standards), an  excessive travel distance for a single exit and the creation of an inner room situation.

All workplaces require some means of raising the alarm in case of fire. This may be anything from a shout of fire to a full L1 alarm and detection system conforming to BS5839 part 1.  The design and specification depends on the level of risk, and in simple terms  depends on how much time is available to make a safe escape from a fire in the building when compared to the rate of likely fire growth and the time it will take to detect and respond to a fire alarm. If a fire occurs in the outer room persons in the warehouse may be trapped?

Fire detection can be a compensation for extended travel distances and inner rooms but only within reasonable limits, 38m in most situations of this type would be pushing it too far. Sort out the means of escape then consider a suitable alarm system appropriate to the residual risk.

Who has done the risk assessment- I would ask them to review their findings and ask them if they are happy for you to confirm their findings with the fire authority.

Davo

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Re: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 08:39:36 AM »
natdan

Even with L1 and everything else A1, BS9999 would only allow approx 26 metres for single MoE

So the other door situation should to be graded Intolerable on the RA

davo

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Re: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 09:12:30 AM »
I would concur with both Davo and Kurnal

The travel distance even with a fire alarm system installed is too excessive and the locked fire exit door should be re-instated immediately.

You mentioned that it was locked for security reasons - can you be more specific? Im sure many firenetters would be happy to suggest / recommend ways to strike a balance between adequate means of escape and security


Offline AnthonyB

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Re: Would you say a Fire Alarm is required?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 11:35:54 AM »
I'd agree with the above as well - the travel distance is why you had the back door & is too excessive.

The Entry level guide does show the use of a fire alarm & detection system to solve a situation similar to which you describe, but relates to a lock up shop where travel distances are not exceeded and is not a universal answer.

As suggested above there are a lot of ways you can secure an exit against intrusion yet still leave it usable for escape - especially where you only have 5 staff & don't need to worry about panic proof fastenings.

e.g. Insurance grade deadlock with an escape thumbturn to the inner face and steel sheeting to the exterior of the door extending beyond the frame edge to deter jemmy's
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