RR(fs)O - Question

[natdan]

A couple of questions:

What are the assessors opinions of a grade D system to a grade A or B system in a 3 storey property containing 6 self contained flats?  The assessors who we are working with have mixed opinions and the brigade (London) are adamant that there should be automatic detection in all these types of properties.  The risk level of the buildings are varying from supported residents such as heavy drinkers to drug rehab to general needs.  From a installers point of view I lean towards the full system going in for obvious reasons but what are the opinions of the assessors?

Typical property:
3 storey building with 1 central stair and a front and rear entrance/exit.  There is one central stair with the building constructed of brick and UPVC windows.  There are 6 flats set out - 2 ground, 1 first, 2 second floor.  There is emergency lighting installed as required, no signage and there are no extinguishers.

Property 2 - 6 bedrooms HMO property with supported residents in rehab.  Communal kitchen & bathroom with the bedrooms 2 per level.  One central stair with compartments in good condition (visually), no FFE other than a fire blanket.  There is a grade D system on escape routes.  The fire doors are in poor condition.

[nearlythere]

A couple of questions:

What are the assessors opinions of a grade D system to a grade A or B system in a 3 storey property containing 6 self contained flats?  The assessors who we are working with have mixed opinions and the brigade (London) are adamant that there should be automatic detection in all these types of properties.  The risk level of the buildings are varying from supported residents such as heavy drinkers to drug rehab to general needs.  From a installers point of view I lean towards the full system going in for obvious reasons but what are the opinions of the assessors?

Typical property:
3 storey building with 1 central stair and a front and rear entrance/exit.  There is one central stair with the building constructed of brick and UPVC windows.  There are 6 flats set out - 2 ground, 1 first, 2 second floor.  There is emergency lighting installed as required, no signage and there are no extinguishers.

Property 2 - 6 bedrooms HMO property with supported residents in rehab.  Communal kitchen & bathroom with the bedrooms 2 per level.  One central stair with compartments in good condition (visually), no FFE other than a fire blanket.  There is a grade D system on escape routes.  The fire doors are in poor condition.

Where the properties purpose built as flats?

[kurnal]

Nearlythere asks the first fundamental question.

Another is who would take responsibility for the management of an alarm system?

I recently came across a fully addressable L2 system in a small new block of purpose built flats. It was super on the day it was installed. My risk assessment of the common areas found the panel in alarm mode, silenced two months previously but not reset, numerous faults and and a screwdriver pushed through panel buzzer. 

[natdan]

Where the blocks purpose built? In most of the blocks no, they are converted houses built 1970's.  Some of the properties up for discussion are self contained purpose built approx 1960's.

There would be little or no management on site on a permenant basis but there are housing officers who check the properties on a weekly basis.

The concern I have is that if a resident is on the second floor (ground plus 2) they have no chance of leaving the building unless given early warning.  The fire doors in 95% of these properties are without seals/strips and a third steel hinge etc to throw another situation in!

Kurnal, if this panel was installed to BS5839 would weekly testing of the panel as recomended not surfice to fix the problem you mentioned?

[kurnal]

That answers it natdan. If its not purpose built flats then it needs alarms and detection in the common areas as you suggest.

You should also deal with the means of escape issues.

In terms of management then you really need to consider the recommendations in the BS. A daily check of the panel should be carired out- this could be by a caretaker, remote monitoring, a couple of trusted and trained tenants - theres a number of ways to get round the problem of having no one on site. But in a high risk environment I would suggest weekly checks are not enough.

[CivvyFSO]

The concern I have is that if a resident is on the second floor (ground plus 2) they have no chance of leaving the building unless given early warning.  The fire doors in 95% of these properties are without seals/strips and a third steel hinge etc to throw another situation in!

I think you are essentially answering your own question there.

[wee brian]

Absolutely.

Having a higher spec alarm isn't always the best solution. People are often tempted to up the spec as it's an apparently quick win. But as Kurnal suggests, it's no use if its got a screwdriver stuck though it!

Fix the doors