Lobby protection to flats

[JPAH]

Hi

Does a small single stair building with two flats per floor (4 flats total) require lobby protection to the stair?  I am thinking specifically about internal to the flat FD20 doors.  Reading ADB I don't think it does.  I know that where there is a flat more than 4.5m ie 3 storey building, this internal lobby protection (or lobby protection in the starwell) is required.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[deenee]

JPAH, I would have thought ADB2 should be your first bet.
A sort of protection between the flats and the stair is ideally needed. That could be in the form of a lobby or, if there is protected entrance hall to the flats then that suffices. Alternatively provide Autovent to the stair.
Refer to diagram 9 of the ADB2 for more details.

[kurnal]

This is a very small block. You can count window exits as you say if the floor is not more than 4.5m above ground level and the windows are suitably sized and dont open over a hazard that would make the window unsafe to use. This may give you some freedom over the internal layout of the flat, but the flat entrance door must be FD30SSC.

No lobby protection to the stair is needed at this low level and note the relaxation for small 2 storey blocks in the emergency lighting table. Provide LD3 in each flat, common areas alarms should not be needed if full compartmentation is provided.

[JPAH]

Thanks, that is very useful.  The next thing then is under the RRO we are just lloking at common areas - therefore the escape window requirement in such a block would be a recommendation under the Housing Act?  I think it would be. 

 

[CivvyFSO]

A sort of protection between the flats and the stair is ideally needed. That could be in the form of a lobby or, if there is protected entrance hall to the flats then that suffices. Alternatively provide Autovent to the stair.
Refer to diagram 9 of the ADB2 for more details.

See the note on para 2.19. Where the top floor is less than 4.5m and escape windows are supplied then no lobby or protected entrance hall is required. (Assuming a standard layout of a flat)

I also disagree with your take on diagram 9. You can have a lobby or a protected entrance hall, but if the protected entrance hall is used then an AOV is required also. The AOV is not an option on its own.

JPAH, there is no recommendation regarding window escapes in the Housing Act. Under the RRO the people in the flats are relevant persons, and if their secondary means of escape is through a window, as ADB allows, then so be it. As Kurnal said, we still need the 30 minute protection the the common stair.

[kurnal]

You are right that the Fire Safety Order does not concern itself with the interior of domestic premises , other than for article 31- prohibiton notices in cases of extreme danger.  The Housing Act and its safety rating system  applies to HMOs - but this is not an HMO because its a purpose built block of four flats.

[deenee]

A sort of protection between the flats and the stair is ideally needed. That could be in the form of a lobby or, if there is protected entrance hall to the flats then that suffices. Alternatively provide Autovent to the stair.
Refer to diagram 9 of the ADB2 for more details.

See the note on para 2.19. Where the top floor is less than 4.5m and escape windows are supplied then no lobby or protected entrance hall is required. (Assuming a standard layout of a flat)

I also disagree with your take on diagram 9. You can have a lobby or a protected entrance hall, but if the protected entrance hall is used then an AOV is required also. The AOV is not an option on its own.

JPAH, there is no recommendation regarding window escapes in the Housing Act. Under the RRO the people in the flats are relevant persons, and if their secondary means of escape is through a window, as ADB allows, then so be it. As Kurnal said, we still need the 30 minute protection the the common stair.

I must admit that the building height (being 4.5m or less) miss me mind.
However, on the AOV recommendation, figure 14b of BS 5588-1 indicates OV only to the stair with protected entrance hall.

[kurnal]

Yes I agree about the OV- an openable window of 1 sq m usually on the first floor is a standard requirement due to the stay put policy. If the Brigade decide they nbeed to tip everybody out they will need to clear the smoke first.

Yes the flat internal layout is a factor offering some protection to the common staircase but in an existing  2 storey block I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The internal flat lobby helps ensire that it is unlikely that a high fire loading will be placed internally close to the door and so limits the exposure of the flat entrance door to the direct radiated heat flux of a fire. It doesnt do much else.

[JPAH]

Kurnal, I read it that the Housing Act applies to all residential premises, but agree that pretty much only HMO's require a licence under the Act.  Therefore the local authority could (if they knew what they were doing) identify a missing escape window as being a 'hazard' under the Housing Act.  The definition of a hazard is 'any risk of harm to the health or safety of an actual or potential occupier of a dwelling or HMO which arises from a deficiency in the dwelling'. 

Therefore I think that if you dont lobby protect the stair in this scenario, escape windows should be provided, however they are not something that is enforceable under the RRO, but are under the Housing Act - and I suppose to take it further the landlord should be notified of this Housing Act requirement.

[CivvyFSO]

If it doesn't have lobbies or escape windows then there might be good cause to say that it is not built to current standards, (But bear in mind that the housing act goes right back to the requirements under the 1984 Building Act when it considers appropriate standards, so an old 1985 ADB might have to be found) therefore it might be a HMO. If this is the case then LACORS might be a starting point regarding layout/standards.

I can almost guarantee that the housing people won't give much of a damn about any missing ADB requirements apart from where it gives the option to define it as a HMO.