Liaison with the fire and rescue service.

[nearlythere]

In view of BS9999 8.3.9 Liaison with the fire and rescue service, and from the point of view of hotels, does anyone know of a situation where there are arrangements with F&R Services for daily or nightly sleeping occupancy notification?
Is this something that the F&R Services should be requiring or would it be too much hassle to manage?

A good relationship with the fire and rescue service will have benefits
for both the occupier and the fire and rescue service. In particular it
will ensure that the fire and rescue service are able to have an
appropriate pre-determined response strategy for the premises
concerned and will enable the occupier to seek advice where
appropriate on:
a) how to prevent fires and restrict their spread in their buildings
and other property;
b) the means of escape from buildings and other property in case of
fire.
• In a level 1 system, the liaison is proactive in nature and includes
effective arrangements for notifying the fire and rescue service of
changes to the occupancy, periods of abnormal occupancy, fire
growth characteristics, and other relevant factors. The
arrangements will also allow for routine meetings with the fire
and rescue service, and additional meetings where a change in
the building or its occupancy is proposed.
• In a level 2 system, the liaison includes arrangements for
notifying the fire and rescue service of changes to the occupancy,
periods of abnormal occupancy, fire growth characteristics,
and other relevant factors. However, the arrangements are
unlikely to provide for routine meetings with the fire and rescue
service or where a change in the building or its occupancy is
proposed.
• In a level 3 system, the liaison is likely to be either non-existent or

[kurnal]

That would be stretching it in my view. I cannot see how this intelligence would be of any use to the fire authority anyway- how would you know who was in or out at the time of  a fire call?

There may be value of notifiying the brigade in the event of unusual and exceptional events such as the erection of  a large marquee housing a fire eating competition or a conference attended by a large number of persons with particular special needs.

The BS is trying to illustrate  a level of fire safety awareness by the management such that they would be likely to recognise and deal with the implications of what they are doing in the course of their business in terms of their risk assessment and emergency plan.

[nearlythere]

That would be stretching it in my view. I cannot see how this intelligence would be of any use to the fire authority anyway- how would you know who was in or out at the time of  a fire call?

There may be value of notifiying the brigade in the event of unusual and exceptional events such as the erection of  a large marquee housing a fire eating competition or a conference attended by a large number of persons with particular special needs.

The BS is trying to illustrate  a level of fire safety awareness by the management such that they would be likely to recognise and deal with the implications of what they are doing in the course of their business in terms of their risk assessment and emergency plan.

In the case of a hotel, were the period of highest risk is during the hours of sleep, it would be fairly easy to provided a occupancy figure due to the registration process. A hotel I am dealing with can have numbers which vary considerably from 2 or 3 residents during the week up to 45 at the weekend.

Due to the night time habits of most tourist, me included, the hotel could not give an accurate minute by minute figure of how many residents are in their rooms at a particular time but 45 persons booked in to a hotel is a significently greater risk possibility requiring more predetermined resources in the event of a fire that if there were only 4.

Of course the evacuation procedure should not rely on the FS so why make provision for what seems to be a means of providing information so it can maintain its risk management plan, which is what the purpose for it seems to be?

[AM]

The Bs is written for an international audience, so some of its content may not be UK specific. Managing occupancy levels would be covered by the FSO, but other countries may not have a similar regulatory regime.

[kurnal]

The Bs is written for an international audience, so some of its content may not be UK specific. Managing occupancy levels would be covered by the FSO, but other countries may not have a similar regulatory regime.

Why dont they have their own standards? BS=British Standard. I would create stink (again) if I thought the highwaymen at the BSI were charging me extortionate fees for BSs that were actually being written for worldwide application and contained guidance not relevant to the UK. And there are plenty of lawywers who would try to rubbish me in court if I then did not follow such guidance. grrr.

[hammer1]

In view of BS9999 8.3.9 Liaison with the fire and rescue service, and from the point of view of hotels, does anyone know of a situation where there are arrangements with F&R Services for daily or nightly sleeping occupancy notification?
Is this something that the F&R Services should be requiring or would it be too much hassle to manage?

A good relationship with the fire and rescue service will have benefits
for both the occupier and the fire and rescue service. In particular it
will ensure that the fire and rescue service are able to have an
appropriate pre-determined response strategy for the premises
concerned and will enable the occupier to seek advice where
appropriate on:
a) how to prevent fires and restrict their spread in their buildings
and other property;
b) the means of escape from buildings and other property in case of
fire.
• In a level 1 system, the liaison is proactive in nature and includes
effective arrangements for notifying the fire and rescue service of
changes to the occupancy, periods of abnormal occupancy, fire
growth characteristics, and other relevant factors. The
arrangements will also allow for routine meetings with the fire
and rescue service, and additional meetings where a change in
the building or its occupancy is proposed.
• In a level 2 system, the liaison includes arrangements for
notifying the fire and rescue service of changes to the occupancy,
periods of abnormal occupancy, fire growth characteristics,
and other relevant factors. However, the arrangements are
unlikely to provide for routine meetings with the fire and rescue
service or where a change in the building or its occupancy is
proposed.
• In a level 3 system, the liaison is likely to be either non-existent or

Sorry I might have read that wrong, but it does not state notify daily changes in occupancy. That wording could mean notify what limit of guests you have, say 120 (if you are referring to Hotels), if you have an extension, you will re-visit your report and notify F&RS of the increase. It would be hard I would of thought for someone to proof that it meant daily contact, given that it is not practicable to do so.

[nearlythere]

In view of BS9999 8.3.9 Liaison with the fire and rescue service, and from the point of view of hotels, does anyone know of a situation where there are arrangements with F&R Services for daily or nightly sleeping occupancy notification?
Is this something that the F&R Services should be requiring or would it be too much hassle to manage?

A good relationship with the fire and rescue service will have benefits
for both the occupier and the fire and rescue service. In particular it
will ensure that the fire and rescue service are able to have an
appropriate pre-determined response strategy for the premises
concerned and will enable the occupier to seek advice where
appropriate on:
a) how to prevent fires and restrict their spread in their buildings
and other property;
b) the means of escape from buildings and other property in case of
fire.
• In a level 1 system, the liaison is proactive in nature and includes
effective arrangements for notifying the fire and rescue service of
changes to the occupancy, periods of abnormal occupancy, fire
growth characteristics, and other relevant factors. The
arrangements will also allow for routine meetings with the fire
and rescue service, and additional meetings where a change in
the building or its occupancy is proposed.
• In a level 2 system, the liaison includes arrangements for
notifying the fire and rescue service of changes to the occupancy,
periods of abnormal occupancy, fire growth characteristics,
and other relevant factors. However, the arrangements are
unlikely to provide for routine meetings with the fire and rescue
service or where a change in the building or its occupancy is
proposed.
• In a level 3 system, the liaison is likely to be either non-existent or

Sorry I might have read that wrong, but it does not state notify daily changes in occupancy. That wording could mean notify what limit of guests you have, say 120 (if you are referring to Hotels), if you have an extension, you will re-visit your report and notify F&RS of the increase. It would be hard I would of thought for someone to proof that it meant daily contact, given that it is not practicable to do so.

Not practical but does not say not to notify daily. It does however say "changes to occupancy" which could be daily. This reads like a recommendation to enable Services to risk management resources on a daily basis.

[Mr. P]

'Occupancy' - the use of the premises.  But in terms of numbers of persons, for a hotel type premise, if your normal average guest list is perhaps 50, and suddenly you get brim full say 150, that may worth revisiting your RA and make a notification.  It seems it's loking at something which is not normal for that premise/occupancy.