Author Topic: Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?  (Read 12535 times)

Offline Brian Catton

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« on: May 09, 2005, 08:30:27 PM »
I remember a few years ago when NAHFO members were amongst the most active fire specialists in the country. Now look at the lack of debate on the healthcare site. With so much inactivity from NHS Estates and the Department of Health the Fire Advisors are left administering an outdated Firecode. So come on lets make some noise and raise questions on this discussion site.

Policy
Training
Effective Risk based guidance, no HTM 86 which decides the level of risk before the assessment is done
Reasonable salaries based on the duties and responsibilities of SFSA's not the fact that most are Fire Officers on a pension anyway.


Also lets have guidance that recognises that not all Trusts are based on Acute Hospitals on a single site. What about the real high risk Trusts, Mental Health and Learning disabilities.

Offline Colin Newman

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2005, 02:38:28 PM »
Brian, you have been a prolific poster.

All of the above, with the exception of salaries, have been raised and included in guidance I drafted over 12 months ago, some of it more than 3 years ago.  Unfortunately, this has yet to make it into the public domain.

As you'll know, over 3 years ago the policy section of NHS Esates was split from its trading function (aka Inventures).  Since then Inventures has largely written Firecode guidance on behalf of NHS Esates policy section.  Since then, only FPN 11 has actually been published.

What's the hold up?  Well some of it is due to the current preparations for the RRO and the desire to make sure that Firecode reflecetd the same principles.  

I'm not really sure that's the only reason, but I suspect that now Inventures has ceased to be, and that NHS Esates will soon be abolished the wheels of guidance production and publication will grind even slower.

Offline Brian Catton

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2005, 05:57:11 PM »
Thanks for that Colin,

I recognise all the good work that people like yourself and Paul roberts do. It is however very frustrating to have to put up with archaic systems of Risk assessment and training just because the NHS hasn't brought itself up to date.
My client Trusts are very cautious about changing procedures etc until there is clear direction from the centre. Probably justifyably so when you bear in mind what could happen to managers and Directors that transgress.
I will still give the best advice based on the real world and what will probably be agreed. I will be pleased though when Firecode is given the same status as ADB. (one way of complying with Regulations)
:rolleyes:

Offline dave bev

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2005, 07:00:13 PM »
were those active nahfo officers ex la fire brigade officers? perhaps even some of those knew what they were talking about?
and what do we have now?

many who care, many who are interested, but is anyone listening?

Nairb

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2005, 09:11:25 AM »
Were all still here, fighting our corner. A great deal of disscussion is happening on our dedicated web site, soon to have a bullitin board. www.nahfo.com As for the ex l.a. side, many of our members are from other places, the forces for example. NAHFO is also now offering associate membership to broaden the wider health areas we serve like community services.  

As for risk based training well many healthcare fire officers are doing this already, me included and still remain within the guidence of Fire Code.

Personally I often feel that l.a. fire authorities dont take notice of our expertise in health. My local chief fire officer doesn't consider the sleeping risk in hospitals as a high risk and has said so. As for IRMP surely its Achilles Heal is that you cannot know what you dont know. Who amongst us 15 years ago would have placed candles as a fire fisk in the home.

Cheers

ajjm

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2005, 12:19:08 PM »
As mentioned, we are still here with a number of my colleagues
in this role who have wide ranging backgrounds in fire safety and
provide diversity with in the National Association of Health Care Fire Officers.

Our web site www.nafho.com enables me and my colleagues the opportunity to
to consult on NHS issues, seek advice on best practice.

( I believe a fee has to be paid for access to some areas on Fire Net! )

Our local , regional and national executives provide a strong platform in representing NAFHO members around the country.
As mentioned associate members are welcomed to further enhance the diverse
membership that already exsists.

Offline Brian Catton

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2005, 07:56:24 PM »
Quote from: Nairb
Were all still here, fighting our corner. A great deal of disscussion is happening on our dedicated web site, soon to have a bullitin board. www.nahfo.com As for the ex l.a. side, many of our members are from other places, the forces for example. NAHFO is also now offering associate membership to broaden the wider health areas we serve like community services.  

As for risk based training well many healthcare fire officers are doing this already, me included and still remain within the guidence of Fire Code.

Personally I often feel that l.a. fire authorities dont take notice of our expertise in health. My local chief fire officer doesn't consider the sleeping risk in hospitals as a high risk and has said so. As for IRMP surely its Achilles Heal is that you cannot know what you dont know. Who amongst us 15 years ago would have placed candles as a fire fisk in the home.

Cheers

As a Healthcare fire advisor I hope the CFO meant that the fire risk is not as great as in other places. We do not have many serious fires in the NHS considering that the NHS has the largest estate and greatest number of employees in Europe. That must be down to fire cade and the Fire Advisors that administer the standards.

Nairb

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2005, 11:24:26 PM »
I agree, Brian. One thing is clear in my mind. Local fire authorities often seem to possess an arrogance or a "we know best" attitude. That worries me greatly..

Offline Gordy

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Where have all the Specialist Fire Safety Advisors gone?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2005, 10:21:05 AM »
Im trying hard take some of the comments here in the light hearted context in which I hope they were intended, re healthcare fire safety advisors and NAHFO, despite the patronising tone some of them convey.
Perhaps, like myself, most healthcare advisors are simply too busy doing their job every day to spend hours arguing flippantly over esoteric trivia.

NAHFO is progressing, nowhere more so than in Scotland where huge steps forward have been taken in the last four years. progress is superficially slow and little often appears to be happening. But we operate in the context of a huge public service. A supertanker needs a lot of searoom and a turn can be observed for hours - neither can you eat a whole elephant in one sitting.

I am actively involved in much of what is going on in Scotland and can aver that NAHFO is at the heart of it. We are the lead body on the Property and Environment Forum fire group, holding the chair and having three other members. This group commissions and administers Firecode revision in Scotland and co-operates and consults closely with English colleagues on issues of common interest. We have also played an important part in the formulation of the new Scottish Executive Health Dept. policy guidance to health authorities, about to be issued, amongst a range of other involvements. This important group would not exist but for the lobbying from NAHFO members who were instrumental in having the group set up by the PEF, who were gracious enough to make us the lead body and offer the chair to us, without prompting. A measure perhaps of their recognition of our professional approach and competency to hold the position and take the lead on fire safety matters.
But the work is laborious and drawn out - there is no other way and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous and shows a lack of knowledge of the thorough and difficult minefield of development work needed to make guidance accurate and appropriate. We are also significant national training providers to the SNHS having provided a number of national courses on fire safety management, with more currently in the pipeline. The SNHS health authorities have no problem or question over our competency as trainers for their 'responsible peson' managers.

Colleagues involved in these processes in England are confronted with equally difficult problems, not least of which is the current healthcare RRO guidance. Their work is hampered by impositions over which they have little control (the guidance must conform to a pre-ordained template) and what ultimately results may not be to everyone's liking. But you can be assured that those who produce the guidance, do so conscientiously and professionally, and they are making great efforts to ensure that the guidance is in the interests of the NHS and the fire advisors who will use it.

I take particular exception to sarcastic, yes and even malicious suggestions that NAHFO itself or it's members are less than professional or competent when it is clear that this is simply untrue. Such comments are an insult, subversive and reflect poorly on those who resort to such means. Is the measure of our activity or success to be simply how loudly we trumpet from the treetops? If there is to be debate make it worth reading and let's have less of the innuendo and criticism of those who work tirelessly for better standards. Let's raise the debating bar a bit.