Unwanted fire signals

[banjo 2]

As mentioned in earlier debates hospitals are stiving to reduce UWFS. we have made some progress, by adapting management procedures in many areas where false alarms are prevelant. However, as anyone who visits a hospital will know, they thrive on toast. Procedures put in place during the fire strike, two persons on a toaster, never left unattended etc worked well, but providing two people is difficult under normal conditions and the temptation to fill the toaster whilst taking round another batch is always there.
I am therefore trying to find toasters (large ones) rotary or pop up that could cut out before burning. Yes I know they should all do that, but they don't.  Regular emptying of crumbs is being done as is regualar maintenance.  So does anyone know of a manufacturer producing a toaster that will do hundreds of rounds of toast a day? we will need a lot of them.  Some members of NAHFO may have already overcome this problem, if so, please let me know how.

[Gary Howe]

Have you considered the installation of Carbon Monoxide fire detectors instead of the usual optical smoke detectors. They are proven to reduce unwanted alarms, especially from sources such as toasters, steam from baths/showers and smoking.

They are recognised within the new BS5839 Part1: 2002 and multi-sensor options are available where they can work as as combined heat and CO fire detector.

There are now at least two large producers of detectors who are able to offer these detectors.

How have hospitals taken to CO detectors?, or are they reluctant to embrace new technology.

[MShaw]

I attended a conference in London Docklands earlier in the year about UwFS in the NHS and was surprised to hear some delegates seriously considering 'banning' toasters to cut down false AFD calls.

The toast would be replace by lightweight ready toasted bread. It's certainly a cheaper option than AFD alterations such as CO detectors.

Is this a serious option which is likely to be taken up by many Trusts or is it crackers? (sorry!)

[colin todd]

Messey, One trust actually removed all toasters from hospitals during the firemens strike. It was such a shame as it was a community trust and the wrinklies looked forward to their toast in the morning. We advised against the action, on the basis of discussions with the nursing staff on the importance of toast to the poor old souls, but the trust FPO insisted. To Gary, CO detectors are not given carte blanche for all circulation areas, which is where the smoke detectors go off when toast is being made. To Banjo, the toast does not actually have to burn to set off an ICSD. Always worth an intitial check to make sure that the detectors in question are optical.

[Brian Catton]

I cover seven Trusts with 150+ premises ranging from 100 bed hospitals to six bed homes and we have very few problems with toasters. If they are assessed in situations that are suitable, ie kitchens with appropriate heat detection and when they are moved staff are admonished (sorry I mean advised of the error of their ways, nearly slipped back into uniformed fire officer mode Colin) it usually solves the problem. Also during training sessions staff are told that if they use a toaster in unauthorised locations everyone in the building will know when the toast pops up.(due to activation of the SD)

A step further is to be found in FPN 11 that is hardwiring toasters into fused switched spurs is a good control measure to prevent the toaster from being moved.

[banjo 2]

Thanks for your replys folks and all sensible.  Most of our problems are caused by not sticking to procedures; this is being addressed. I submitted a paper to the board which showed we needed a 40% reduction and pointed out brigades may soon be charging; funny how line managers now want to talk about procedures. All the effected detectors are on circulation routes and whilst heat detectors are in the kitchens, the doors are of course wedged open (in new areas they are detented).  We cover these points in training and out of 7,000 staff we trained 5,800 last year, but they are human and most culprits are over worked hotel services staff. We are due to become a partnership hospital in a matter of months, which means very few buildings have much of a life span so upgrading problem systems is unlikely.  So I'm still on the lookout for a good toaster if you come across one.

[Colin Newman]

One Trust I know of has replaced its pop-up toasters with the conveyor type.  The fire officer claimsa significant improvement in the unwanted fire signals generated from toasters and enough of an improvement to warrant the investment.  

If you send me an email I'll get you the fire officer's details.

[Guest]

I am currently engaged in a project for my HND Fire Safety Studies. This is based on “Reducing unwanted fire signals”.
I am interested in any examples of good practice which has achieved a reduction in false alarms.
If any one can help I would be very grateful.
I am aware of many of the many publications, guides and reviews relating to this subject and I am more interested in actual experiences and policies    etc which have helped.
Happy to share the outcome of the investigation with anyone who is interested.
Mike

[colin todd]

Just a thought- you may get better responses if you narrow the question a bit.

[Guest]

Since my first message in December, we have done a lot of work on UWFS.  we have got a programme of changing pop up toasters to rotary and toasters are wired in to an extractor, if the toaster is on so is the extractor. Badly located detectors are being moved, contractors are subject to a penaly if they cause an alarm due to not following procedures ( hot work permit, isolation etc). food trolley regeneration points surveyd.  and most of all food preperation and distrubition procedures were considered and changes made. alarms caused by smoke or smells from outside sources are more difficult, but we are looking at it.  I don't know if we will ever achieve the reductions required in FPN11, but we are giving it a good go.  Any other ideas will be welcomed.

[banjo 2]

Sorry, that's me above; I forgot to log in  :oops: