Casino With Mag Locks & No Green Box

[SidM]

For obvious reasons the casino refuse to install a green box on their exits.  There is a link to the fire alarm and doors open on power failure.  What can they do if they don't want to fit green boxes at the exits?

[nearlythere]

For obvious reasons the casino refuse to install a green box on their exits.  There is a link to the fire alarm and doors open on power failure.  What can they do if they don't want to fit green boxes at the exits?

Obvious reasons do not have to be valid SidM. If there is a valid security issue then alternatives may be considered. This could be the provision of failsafe measures and good management. I take it they have ample CCTV security which, along with a sound management plan, could be utilised to provide a monitoring and central door release system.
What about a double knock with a delay on operation of a green box to allow security people to get to door with a failsafe in event of detection of fire?

[SidM]

Nearlythere - I am not sure I know what you mean.  Are you suggesting that the green box can be set up to operate one off three ways.  

1. If the fire alarm goes off, the door does not release and the green box is operated the doors will open
2. If two smoke detectors go off and the fire alarm does not release the door the green box will
3. If there is no fire alarm or double knock and someone operates the green box security will be notified and there will be a time delay before the doors release.

If this is what you mean, can green boxes be set up to achieve number 3 above

[nearlythere]

Nearlythere - I am not sure I know what you mean.  Are you suggesting that the green box can be set up to operate one off three ways.  

1. If the fire alarm goes off, the door does not release and the green box is operated the doors will open.
2. If two smoke detectors go off and the fire alarm does not release the door the green box will
3. If there is no fire alarm or double knock and someone operates the green box security will be notified by and there will be a time delay before the doors release.

If this is what you mean, can green boxes be set up to achieve number 3 above

I am assuming we are only talking about the operation of the green box. If the alarm goes off the doors should release immediately. I assume the reason for the absence of a green box is in case of robbery and quick escape.
What I am saying is that on operation of the green box there is a delay before door releases of sufficient time to enable a security check of the relevant door. This system would be failsafe in that the lock would release immediately on operation of the fire alarm system by manual or automatic means.
With the technical wizzardry at our disposal nowadays the green box system could be set this way. It is only a switch after all.

[Phoenix]

Could I ask......Leaving aside what British Standards say, under what circumstances would the green box be required?

Stu

[nearlythere]

Could I ask......Leaving aside what British Standards say, under what circumstances would the green box be required?

Stu

Generally a green box would normally be provided on a door where control over entry and exit is required. The door would be locked but interlinked with the manual and automatic fire alarm system to release on operation.
A manual override facility would also be provided at the door - green box.

[Phoenix]

Thanks NY, but what I really wanted was for someone to describe the precise circumstances under which someone would be required to press the green box.

Stu

[Galeon]

Been involved with Casinos for years , this is not an unusual circumstance .
Its all to do with the money stuff , and was present when the Inspecting Officer was on site to grant the licence etc, the young lady who was with him , commented on this aka no green release .
The Casino proved all the risk measures which is standard across the clubs , and you will probably find the exit(s) you may well be talking about are into staff areas / back off house .
He was happy to accept the other numerous  escape routes off the gaming floor still in Public areas .
He did ask us to prove the doors without the green bgu de locked upon fire condition.

[Wiz]

Thanks NY, but what I really wanted was for someone to describe the precise circumstances under which someone would be required to press the green box.

Stu

Stu, I'm coming into this late and might be completely missing your point, because what you seem to be asking seems to be obvious to me! Well here goes.

Whilst escaping from a premises on fire, I find that my escape route is locked by a door held closed by a mag-lock. The fire alarm has operated but due to a fault on the system the mag-lock has not automatically released. Fortunately a green BGU, more correctly called an Emergeny Door Release, is positioned beside the locked door. When I operate this the electrical power to the maglock is removed and the door unlocks allowing my escape from the premises.

[CivvyFSO]

Do we have call points at all the exits?

If so, and they are connected to the magnetic lock, then surely they compromise security just as much as the green boxes?

[nearlythere]

Do we have call points at all the exits?

If so, and they are connected to the magnetic lock, then surely they compromise security just as much as the green boxes?

Yes. But maybe bandits might not realise that the locks are linked to the fire alarm system. If that proves to be an issue then it could be that a delay is desirable to the door release mechanism when fire alarm sounds.

[CivvyFSO]

The whole point of the green box is that it is right on the power supply to the magnet, on both poles. Pressing the break glass physically cuts the power to the magnet on both poles, so even a short cannot stop it working.

Anything that creates this delay is relying on a signal, whether it is from the alarm system or from the box itself, this signal has to go somewhere for some micro-electrical system to make a decision or start a timer, and then eventually send a signal back. Then something has to stop the flow of electricity to the magnet. All it takes is one short/error and the whole system falls down. Locked exits, just when they are needed.

[nearlythere]

The whole point of the green box is that it is right on the power supply to the magnet, on both poles. Pressing the break glass physically cuts the power to the magnet on both poles, so even a short cannot stop it working.

Anything that creates this delay is relying on a signal, whether it is from the alarm system or from the box itself, this signal has to go somewhere for some micro-electrical system to make a decision or start a timer, and then eventually send a signal back. Then something has to stop the flow of electricity to the magnet. All it takes is one short/error and the whole system falls down. Locked exits, just when they are needed.

I take it Civvy you are not in favour of a delay?

[CivvyFSO]

Correct. I am not in favour of having any emergency exit locked just to protect money, especially in a place of assembly where we have many members of the public.

They can do many things to secure their money, but if someone has made it though all their defences and got the cash, is the robbery really going to be foiled if they can't walk out of a fire exit immediately?

[kurnal]

Civvy I know where you are coming from, I agree but I dont see it as simple as that. The delayed exit strategy is not necessarily just to protect money.

Robberies in places like casinos are not spur of the moment events- the robbers will have cased out the job before they do it. If they see a green break glass box then it will make that casino even more vulnerable to a potential attack.

Robberies are probably an even greater risk to peoples safety than a fire in this situation.