Author Topic: Fire Wardens.  (Read 23062 times)

Offline Clevelandfire 3

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Re: Fire Wardens.
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2010, 10:20:22 PM »
All very true but remember that the very fact that "the fire warden did something catastrophic, or went against their training for whatever reason during a fire, causing the commission of an offence" is evidence that the employer has not "done everything practicable to appoint and train their fire wardens to an acceptable standard."


Why is it?. You work at my saw mill. I train you how to use the big cutting saw properly and appropriately to always use the machine's guard. You say you understand. I get you to sign a piece of paper to say youve had training and understand it. I put a big sign up by the machine which says always use machine guard. I monitor you on the machine for a week to make sure you are using it properly. A week later you cut your hand off cos you didnt use the machine guard. I ask you what happened and you tell me you weren't concentrating. So as your employer thats my fault is it Stu? On one hand you say Rettys statement about appropriate training is true but then go on to contradict it by intimating that automatically if an employee cocks up it must be the employers fault.










Offline nearlythere

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Re: Fire Wardens.
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2010, 10:27:47 PM »
All very true but remember that the very fact that "the fire warden did something catastrophic, or went against their training for whatever reason during a fire, causing the commission of an offence" is evidence that the employer has not "done everything practicable to appoint and train their fire wardens to an acceptable standard."


Why is it?. You work at my saw mill. I train you how to use the big cutting saw properly and appropriately to always use the machine's guard. You say you understand. I get you to sign a piece of paper to say youve had training and understand it. I put a big sign up by the machine which says always use machine guard. I monitor you on the machine for a week to make sure you are using it properly. A week later you cut your hand off cos you didnt use the machine guard. I ask you what happened and you tell me you weren't concentrating. So as your employer thats my fault is it Stu? On one hand you say Rettys statement about appropriate training is true but then go on to contradict it by intimating that automatically if an employee cocks up it must be the employers fault.

Employers fault? Untimately yes C3 but the employers training and monitoring of the individual would be a mitigating factor. The better the training and monitoring the better the mitigation.The fact that the employee lost his hands showed something was amiss.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Fire Wardens.
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2010, 12:52:27 AM »
All very true but remember that the very fact that "the fire warden did something catastrophic, or went against their training for whatever reason during a fire, causing the commission of an offence" is evidence that the employer has not "done everything practicable to appoint and train their fire wardens to an acceptable standard."


Why is it?. You work at my saw mill. I train you how to use the big cutting saw properly and appropriately to always use the machine's guard. You say you understand. I get you to sign a piece of paper to say youve had training and understand it. I put a big sign up by the machine which says always use machine guard. I monitor you on the machine for a week to make sure you are using it properly. A week later you cut your hand off cos you didnt use the machine guard. I ask you what happened and you tell me you weren't concentrating. So as your employer thats my fault is it Stu? On one hand you say Rettys statement about appropriate training is true but then go on to contradict it by intimating that automatically if an employee cocks up it must be the employers fault.

Employers fault? Untimately yes C3 but the employers training and monitoring of the individual would be a mitigating factor. The better the training and monitoring the better the mitigation.The fact that the employee lost his hands showed something was amiss.

Thank you NT.  Yes.  Unfortunately, C3 (?) you knew I was an alcoholic and also knew I was prone to 'fall off the wagon' occasionally and yet you let me loose on a piece of equipment that was capable of cutting my hands off!  

I can tell you, it's not easy to type this!  Not while I'm so drunk.

Stu

« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 12:54:32 AM by Phoenix »

Offline Username

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Re: Fire Wardens.
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2010, 07:54:49 AM »
Some interesting guidance for HSE inspectors re prosecuting individuals:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/fod/oc/100-199/130-8.htm#app1

"Summary
This document tells you about HSC's policy on prosecuting individuals, gives you our current instructions on the issue, gives you some guidance and tells you where you can find additional help. The entire document is 'open', except for Appendix 5, which is 'fully closed'."

Offline Davo

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Re: Fire Wardens.
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2010, 09:09:56 AM »
C3

'On one hand you say'

Of course it would be, I've chopped the other f****r off :'(

davo