Vacant buildings with security guard

[Stinky]

Hello,

If a local council has a building that is vacant and they contract a security firm to put a man in it to secure the building, does the RRO apply? So it is the security firm's man and not the council's.  He sits in the building and patrols every hour and swaps with differenc guards for different shifts.  Was the RRO intended for this type of premise?

Your thoughts please.

Stinky

[Stinky]

And if there is a fire alarm system, emergency lighting and electric, should the council be maintaining these services?  In the council's opinion it is a vacant building and they have not serviced the building for years. 

[Clevelandfire 3]

The RRO would definately apply but the fire safety measures initially installed for a fully occupied building may not be required for a sole security guard. For instance if he or she carries a torch you could say that in the event of power failure the torch will be used as their own source of emergency lighting.

The fire alarm system may or may not be required. It depends on the layout of the premises and the type of system. If its a big open space where the security guard could see a fire occur turn his or her back and evacuate safely then that might be ok. But if it is a big building where fire could go undetected and spread before the escape routes become impassable before the guards can escape then any fire dteetcion may need to be kept servicable and in working order. Hard to say without seeing the building.

[Stinky]

That's fair enough, I understand that its difficult to comment on specific aspects of the fire precautions without knowing the building. 

From your answer I assume that you are of the opinion that the RRO does apply to a vacant building with a sole security guard?

This building in particular has a faulty detection system.  Security patrols the building every hour, so it could be argued that this is a means of detection. The building is medium sized, but a lot of small rooms.  All areas have an alternative so escape can be made away from any area.

[FSO]

There is no disapplication of the Order to premises that are derelict or vacant. Where there is a security guard, it makes it even easier as it is a workplace.

The big one is article 38 issues. There is usually a pretty high risk of fire in vacant/derelict premises due to bored young persons  . Therefore any facilities or measures for firefighters protection should be maintained to the required standard.

A degree of common sense has to prevail though.

Jim

[Mr. P]

Lone worker regs? Under HSE.

[Clevelandfire 3]

Well yeah that would come into it, but the question reffered to the fire safety order.The fire safety order without doubt applies but you may be able to scale down or tailor the fire safety requirements to suit the fact you only have a security guard on site under specific circumstances rather than tens of people working there during normal working hours.

[AnthonyB]

We FRA vacant premises & most stuff relates to arson prevention & security, as mitigating the effects of fire is the main responsibility here as there are few or no relevant persons involved.

Clients will sometimes FRA vacants in order to get a 'to do' list prior to letting as we will grade actions in either a 'do now even though empty' category or an 'immediately prior to occupancy once let' category.