FBU A step too far..Its beyond a joke

[Jim Creak]

I am a socialist and agree whole heartedly in the principles of shared resources, each to their needs which means there is no place for selfish, unilateral grab n greed in my opinion. We need better disciplines than that to challenge the economic hardships the we face in the 21st Century. In the big scheme of things the FBU have by industrial action and putting lives at risk secured fantastic terms and conditions for its employees in the past however those days of grab n greed under Tony Blair have gone and the reality has now dawned from that excess. The changes now required to redress the balance and primarily to shift hours are not that onerous and any amount of common sense would agree that the current working shift system is not efficient use of resources. True social conscience would tell you that but by inference we, the rest of society, get the impression that you (Mr Angry) are saying " Pull the ladder up! Jack! I'm alright "

Your justification is that we are all at it. This is not true most of us are really concerned about the future, we the unheard silent majority that does not have a public bottomless purse to empty. I am aghast at the salary perks and benefits of the FBU union officers this is as far removed from collective bargaining and collective protection as the ordinary man can comprehend, understand let alone be happy with. It is selfish and it is why socialism will never work, it is an ideal destroyed by the very selfish nature of human beings. Looking after number one. The FBU leadership should be ashamed of itself and therefore the membership by default and by democracy guilty of hypocrisy.

[mr angry]

Jim, would I be right in my assumption that you are not a firefighter?

You mention that the shift in working hours are not that onerous and that any amount of common sense would agree that the current current shift system is not an efficient use of resources. Can I firstly ask as to why you hold this opinion and the details and advantages of any system that you may be able to propose.

As for the "we" the rest of society get the impession that I am saying pull the ladder up Jack, I am alright line....I have no idea what you are trying to say here therefore will not attemp to respond.

Can I assume that you are also unhappy about workers, or is it just firefighters having more than one job, or am I reading this wrong?

In your socialist world would you have all workers right to strike removed, or just that of firefighters.

Sorry for so many questions Jim, I am just unsure of what exactly you are trying to say here.

[Jim Creak]

Quite right I am not a firefighter, I'm far too short for a start.

However you are right we are talking about Firefighters salaries, not other jobs part time spare time or 2nd or 3rd Jobs this I feel is totally irrelevant. I have never objected to anyone having as many jobs as they feel they can do. Most Firefighters that I talk to that have other jobs are putting the training that they recieve from the public purse up for for sale in the private sector, which as long as they declare the income that is taxed is putting something back into the system in repayment which is for the public good.

However,the forum was discussing the industrial dispute over minor changes in the shift patterns of firefighters, the planning and deployment of valuable resources in an effective and efficient way for the public good. The majority of the adult voting population (the we that I refer to) have voted democratically for major cuts in public expenditure for the good of all of us. The public good!!

If the efficient use of resources cannot be achieved by good working relationships ,the only other alternative must be less firefighters, or less who? I just get the impression from the over paid FBU union officers comments that the FBU do not care who it is as long as it is not them. " Pull the ladder up Jack I'm alright"

I give you this feed back for what it is worth. I agree I maybe wrong but I speak to a fair few people in the course of my daily work within the Fire Safety industry and I have spoken to quite a lot of them about this dispute and from what they have read and heard there has not been one supporter of your cause, even less when they know that the negotiators are on £400,000 a year. You are a Public Service and I think I give you fair reflection of public opinion. I apologise wholeheartedly if I am wrong.



 

[mr angry]

Ok Jim,

Firstly you will not be too short as we no longer have height restrictions.

You mention minor changes in shift pattern. This may be minor to you, whom it has no bearing but it has a major effect to those involved.

As a socialist I am sure you will be only too keen for workers to be able to utilise their right to withdraw their labour should they feel the need to, or is it this that you have an issue?

Lets first go back a wee bit here. Firefighters do not work the 142 days as your quote says, it is closer to 197 by my quick calculations which I might add is over a 42 hour week.

Your quote also states that the tax payer does not get anything like value for money from the reported £2 billion invested annually with a fortune wasted on inefficient use of staff. I am not sure what evidence or substance this is based on as I am not quite sure what this inefficient use of staff refers to exactly.

Your rag journalist may wish to gain some facts on the pay of both police officers and nurses (not that this is particularly relevant) before publishing incorrect information regarding salaries as certainly a police officer earns far more than a firefighter.

Given both you and others that you speak to on this within the fire safety industry have such opinions I would simply ask that you gain some facts on the matter as their appears to be a lack of them reported in the press that you seem so keen to post nuggets of wisdom from.

You seem to have a beef with the salaries of full time fbu officials. This is a matter for the members who pay these salaries and not the general public. Do the salaries of other union employees flow so freely of the toungue and are that of the fbu employees so different from other unions? I dont know to be honest. I am however keen to know who is on the £400,000 that you quote as I may cancel my subs on the strength of this.

Lastly Jim, I dont work in London, in fact I dont even work in England but I will say this. Did public opinion make one difference to the war in Iraq?

I am all for everyone having an opinion Jim, I would only ask that people dont post trash that bears no resemblance to the truth.

[Jim Creak]

I think at this point we must agree to differ. The argument must remain unresolved, your opinion is entrenched with self interest and mine in ideaology. I do hope it is resolved in the interest of us all. History tells us...London Docks...now in Holland.....Car Manufacturing .....every where else other than the UK....Coal Mining.....every where else other than UK....inflexible working and excessive union monopoly power ended up in major closure. The Fire Authorities have already lost so much Fire Safety responsibility to the private sector. Essex Fire Authority is half arms length private service....This is where the real battle lines are being drawn up. The public do not like being held to ransom.

As for the FBU union officers it is of public record that they had pay and perks package in excess of £500,000 for 2008 and 2009

[Clevelandfire 3]

I think at this point we must agree to differ. The argument must remain unresolved, your opinion is entrenched with self interest and mine in ideaology. I do hope it is resolved in the interest of us all. History tells us...London Docks...now in Holland.....Car Manufacturing .....every where else other than the UK....Coal Mining.....every where else other than UK....inflexible working and excessive union monopoly power ended up in major closure. The Fire Authorities have already lost so much Fire Safety responsibility to the private sector. Essex Fire Authority is half arms length private service....This is where the real battle lines are being drawn up. The public do not like being held to ransom.

As for the FBU union officers it is of public record that they had pay and perks package in excess of £500,000 for 2008 and 2009

HI Jim

Youve hit the nail on the head. Dont get me wrong Mr Angry is actually correct in his argument. But that matters not a jot because the public only believes whats printed in the paper or in this case the gutter press and this is exactly why the FBU should have been a bit more savvy. To strike during public hardship is simply suicidal for the very reasons you highlight Jim. I actually agree with the london firefighters and I truly understand their feelings and their plights. But London Fire Brigade Chiefs played a blinder and have won the game.This is and never has been about pay or shift patterns. Infact mostt London Firefighters need second third or even fourth jobs oto even survive in LOndon. Some even have to commute in because they dont live inb London. Cant afford it. But hey ho they coulkd do something else no one is holding a gun agaiunst their heads. And thats the argument.,