Security on internal doors that are part of the means of escape

[boro]

A tenant has requested that an electronic access control system is provided on to a fire resisting door with a vision panel on the top floor of a two story building that opens onto an internal protected staircase. The security system in question will be a 12V D.C. electronic door strike, and proximity reader access. The electronic door strikes shall be interfaced to the fire alarm system (type P1) and configured to fail safe on power failure, together with the door furniture fitted on the escaping side to allow manual egress.
Because the door opens into the staircase, to cover the risk that the stair case being affected by fire or smoke impeding the continuation the final exit of the building. To cover the risk to people in the event of fire and simultaneous failure of the actuation arrangements of the security system failing to release via the operation of the fire alarm system. Should there not also be the provision, of a suitable emergency disconnection arrangements (a green break glass unit) on the external side of the door and not relying on someone having their proximity card, to allow occupants to gain access back into the room to pursue an alternative exit route.
Your views/advise would be greatly appreciated.

[kurnal]

As the staircase is stated to be a protected route the provision of a green box on the staircase side would appear to be unnecessary. Generally it is not expected that people would have to leave a protected route to seek an alternative means of escape, any alternative routes should not involve people passing through staircase enclosures.

You appear to have covered the egress from the office into the staircase in two ways, a green box and by the door furniture. If you have a thumb turn or similar the green box on the office side may also be unnecessary.

P1 alarm system only? Seems unusual?

As an aside magnetic locks are more reliable than electromechanical keeps in an emergency, as these will not release if there is pressure on the door.

[Wiz]

Good answer, Prof. K

But with reference your query of 'why only P1'. By my reckonong P1 is equal to L1 but plus has possible longer battery standby duration and definite connection to arc. Or can anyone think of something L1 has over P1 aprt from the letter L in the description?

[kurnal]

I was thinking that it would be most unusual for an occupied building not to require at least an M system (ie P1/M)  and sounders to cover all areas, which is not necessarily the case with a P system.

[CivvyFSO]

Or can anyone think of something L1 has over P1 aprt from the letter L in the description?

Manual call points?

[Wiz]

Yes, but apart from the fact that an L system always includes mcps? !!!!

Obviously a P1 system would require just as many mcps as an L1 system if it was in the same type of building and used for a similar purpose.

Maybe I was just reading Prof. K post wrongly and I thought he was originally alluding to some sort of diiference in the detection coverage, when he was obviously not.

Apologies for any confusion created.

[SeaBass]

Boro,  The arrangements for access controlled doors and associated interfaces with automatic fire detection are covered in BS 7273:4 This standard came in for quite a bit of criticism when it was first issued, but to be honest it's not bad and contains some useful guidance.

Bear in mind that fitting electrically controlled/operated door furniture will involve drilling holes in the top edge of the door (for magnetic sole plates) and/or increasing the size of mortises in order to fit the locks / electromechanical keeps. This will potentially compromise the fire resisting properties of the door set and therefore it is advisable to line cavities in the door or frame with inumescent sleeves and pockets.  Often these are available from the manufacturers of the locks, keeps and sole plates.      

With regards to the appropriate standard of fire detection/alarm required, 7273 recommends that whatever standard is deemed appropriate for the building will be appropriate for the access control system, bearing in mind that people will use the exits in response to an alarm, and that the doors will be provided with a manual over ride ( green BGU).

[Mike Buckley]

Surely the point must be that the door is on the top floor and has a vision panel. Anyone who is attempting to evacuate through this route would be able to see if the staircase was untenable through the vision panel, therefore there should be no need to get back into the rooms from the staircase as they shouldn't have entered the staircase in the first place.

[SeaBass]

I first came across the requirement for re-entry on to floors from a means of escape following the 911 attacks on the twin towers.  So far as I am aware the arrangement has only ever been adopted in, or even suggested for,  high rise iconic buildings (potential terrorist targets) where an attack could render a staircase impassable.

The re-entry levels are usually those designated as service areas such as restaurants, viewing galleries, passenger lift intersection floors and the like. As stated in other postings, it’s difficult to imagine a situation where such an arrangement would be necessary in a normal block of flats, and in any case, would only be of real benefit if there was a second stair case. 

[Midland Retty]

As Mike has already said one would assume that people could see through the vision panel in the door to check the staircase is tennable, and if it were a protected route it shouldn't be compromised anyway.

So a green BGU fitted on the staircase side of the door is unecessary in my opinion.

[AnthonyB]

As Mike has already said one would assume that people could see through the vision panel in the door to check the staircase is tennable, and if it were a protected route it shouldn't be compromised anyway.

So a green BGU fitted on the staircase side of the door is unecessary in my opinion.

And defeats the point of the door security system - a quick push of the thumb on the element or the insertion of a test key (readily available on the net) and you are in. It wouldn't be the first time I've had extra break glass overrides removed as they aren't needed for escape and also render the access/security system useless.

[nearlythere]

As Mike has already said one would assume that people could see through the vision panel in the door to check the staircase is tennable, and if it were a protected route it shouldn't be compromised anyway.

So a green BGU fitted on the staircase side of the door is unecessary in my opinion.

And defeats the point of the door security system - a quick push of the thumb on the element or the insertion of a test key (readily available on the net) and you are in. It wouldn't be the first time I've had extra break glass overrides removed as they aren't needed for escape and also render the access/security system useless.

But a green box system is not there for security purposes. More for entry control.

[boro]

Thanks all, for your views and advise it is greatly appreciated

[AnthonyB]

As Mike has already said one would assume that people could see through the vision panel in the door to check the staircase is tennable, and if it were a protected route it shouldn't be compromised anyway.

So a green BGU fitted on the staircase side of the door is unecessary in my opinion.

And defeats the point of the door security system - a quick push of the thumb on the element or the insertion of a test key (readily available on the net) and you are in. It wouldn't be the first time I've had extra break glass overrides removed as they aren't needed for escape and also render the access/security system useless.

But a green box system is not there for security purposes. More for entry control.

Most people in buildings we deal with have it there to prevent unauthorised access which is of course a security measure - once you are in you can wander where you want with little challenging, hence the use of door control. It's also used a lot in retail to secure access to stockrooms where in the past people have slipped in & grabbed all sorts of stuff

[CivvyFSO]

It's also used a lot in retail to secure access to stockrooms where in the past people have slipped in & grabbed all sorts of stuff

Like stock?

The same stock that is out there on the shelves?