Fire safety Signs

[nearlythere]

Can anyone post the link to the website where you can design and download your own signage please?

[SandDancer]

What are you after Nearlythere Fire Action Notices?

[AnthonyB]

http://www.online-sign.com/

If that doesn't work, try their new Beta http://www.online-sign.com/os7/

[nearlythere]

Thanks AB

[Jim Creak]

I am so sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the website sign designs recommended by Anthony do not conform to even the basics of safety sign design to conform to appropriate Standards. Does it matter? All the technical work on comprehension, conspicuity, relevance to persons with literacy or dyslexia? Obviously not. I have expressed this for 20 years and I am still a voice in the wilderness.

[AnthonyB]

I may have provided the link, but where did I say "It's really good, go and do all your signs there for free!"?

I'd rather a pictographic sign from there than none at all or some poor hand written job which you see in smaller concerns.


Oh and just one more word .......... Everlux! *


* those who saw the episode Sense and Senility, the 4th of Blackadder the Third, will get the reference.....

[Jim Creak]

I was just making the point that the graphical symbols on the site you recommended do not conform to the appropriate Standards. I also made the point that I don't think many people care,  however on a technical issue the hand written job could be more effective than using a graphical symbol of poor design, which incidently is an offence under The Health and Safety(Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations 1996.

On a constructive note I am glad to announce that the Health and Safety Sign Association has announced the full adoption of ISO 7010 as the new Standard for Safety Signs all members are withdrawing the so called Euro Signs from all their standard catalogue ranges. ISO 7010 is in the process of being adopted as a European Norm and the confusing annex to EC Directive is to be withdrawn.

As for the reference to Everlux I am not sure what I am to make of that.? Would you like me to comment on their designs? I have heard that they don't even bother with the colour yellow on hazard signs can you confirm this?

[jokar]

Jim,

does this mean that the Euro sign as installed will now become illegal?  Most of the Internally illuminated exit signs have these as you are aware this could be a huge cost burden.

[AnthonyB]

Everlux do not use yellow (they would argue the base material is yellow enough even though it isn't by any stretch of the imagination the proper yellow) as if they printed black on yellow on photoluminescent you would only see the outline of the sign in the dark and no writing or symbol.

Their stuff is popular with the trade as it is cheap (even cheaper stuff has emerged recently too under the Titan brand).

However it can't compete with Jalite AAA in performance. I have a fire door with a Jalite AAA Fire door keep shut sign an Everlux 'beware of the drop' warning pictogram next to each other and the difference with the lights off is amazing.

Existing Euro signs won't become illegal overnight although many in the trade (& many safety officers who easily have the wool pulled over their eyes) will try and say different to rake in the cash.

Good luck in getting ICEL and it's members and most of China in changing their Exit Box fascias, it's been tried before!

[Jim Creak]

In my humble opinion nothing is illegal anymore you can use recycled washing up water in buckets as an alterrnative extinguisher if you want to, it is for professionals, competent people and ultimately the Responsible Person to deem that any provision is an appropriate measure. If a risk assessment shows that fire safety signs are an appropriate measure then in my opinion they should conform to a recognised standard.

I think it would be appropriate to remove all the signs rather than have signs that are not understood and can mislead and delay egress.

A risk assessor must decide whether the use of Euro Signs are a significant finding, knowing that they have no comprehension credentials, are likely to confuse is pretty damning for means of escape provision. It is for the risk assessor to decide.

[wee brian]

Jim - it's gopod news if there is only one type of pictogram on the market. Has this been taken up by the peopl that do emergency lighting too? You often find the ELs with horrible Eurosigns stuck on them in buildings using the ISO pictogram on all the other signs. (it's just a bit pants)

[Jim Creak]

To be fair to ICEL and LIF they sent a letter to all members years ago outlining the risks of using the Euro Symbol. They felt the technical case and obvious liability so great that they were compelled to withdraw technical support for the Euro Symbol. The technical Committee has been waiting for enforcement authorities to sort it out.

There is no excuse now....it is upto the risk assessor.

[AnthonyB]

They may well have, but the entire EL industry has ignored it and no doubt will continue to do so particularly as Building Control & enforcing authorities don't give a fig, nor do most customers.

If the EL industry do finally change then it's a case of phased introduction like with red extinguishers unless a new regulation is brought in - I'm not making clients with fittings that could be less than a year old change fascias overnight unless info4fire starts publishing loads of prosecutions for 'wrong running men'.

Even when a regulation did change signage in '96 they still allowed 2 years grace to upgrade.

 

[Jim Creak]

In 1996 we still had prescriptive legislation and code based enforcement so it was pertinent to give 2 years to phase implementation. Not only that the prescriptive regime that existed was as good as! and with hindsight better than that which was implemented with EC Directive 92/58.

I do agree that the EL industry has a lot to answer for the confusion and it is why I have consisently said that fire safety signs should not be considered as part of an emergengency lighting system.

The situation is quite different now, using graphical symbols that we know are likely to be misunderstood, likely to be ignored, likely to reduce ASET requires risk assessors to note as a significant finding and recommend replacement schedule. This schedule should be appropriate to the purpose group of the building, in some cases it might well be appropriate to just remove all the signs, if the building layout is very familiar to all occupants, however in public buildings and hotels I believe replacement should be a much shorter time scale.

[Gasmeter]

I hope this isn't a really stupid question, but what (if any) is the relationship between ISO 7010 and BS ISO 16069:2004?