Acceptance of PVC for fire resistance?

[nearlythere]

Midland.

Have come across at least one housing association that is fitting composite doors to flats onto common areas, they have indicated that they comply with BS 476 but have not had sight of the documentation or manufacturer. Will try and get some more info which may take a little time as away on holiday at the moment in sunny (it's raining) St. Ives

Is that St Ives where it never rains? Lucky boy.

[wee brian]

There are some FR doors on the market with a PVC finish on them.

[The Colonel]

It rained yesterday but today was fine and managed a reasonable session outside of the Sloop Inn with the odd cold larger or 4. Hard work this holiday thing, just wish clients would take the hint that I am on holiday.

[colin todd]

Brian,  I think you will find that there are what appear to be uPVC doors that are fire resistant by virtue of an FR core.

[SamFIRT]

Brian,  I think you will find that there are what appear to be uPVC doors that are fire resistant by virtue of an FR core.

Interesting.

How can you tell? ( pre fire not post fire ....of course) 

[Tom Sutton]

Brian,  I think you will find that there are what appear to be uPVC doors that are fire resistant by virtue of an FR core.

Interesting.

How can you tell? ( pre fire not post fire ....of course) 

You can't, irrespective of the materials its constructed of, its all about a little piece of paper/plastic attached to or accompanies the item, it says so or should.

[colin todd]

They are quite heavy Thomas.

[SamFIRT]

What is the core made of to make it heavy and how heavy?
For example is it comparable to a proprietary front door constructed of sheet steel and PVC? ( they are not very FR in my experience by the way).

[Tom Sutton]

True Colin we used it as one of the criteria when attempting to determine the FR of a door but in the end still a guess educated guess maybe but still a guess.

[Tall Paul]

I appreciate that this is an older thread, but by way of interest I am in the process of reviewing some doors in a block of flats that have been described as fire doors by the building manager.  They have an apparent uPVC surface finish with nothing to indicate that they are anything other than a standard entrance door.

I have discovered subsequently that they are composite doors, as discussed above, and that they have undergone testing to BS 476-22 with Warrington Fire.  I have read the Warrington  report and it confirms that the test was undertaken successfully in regard to integrity.  No mention is made in the report of testing in regard to stability or insulation.  The doors are being sold as fully compliant 30-minute fire doors.  The following two web sites include them in their product range:

http://www.dorwin.co.uk/products/doors/Composite%20Door%20Specification%20.pdf

http://www.permadoor.co.uk/product-fire.asp

I have requested information relating to stability and insulation performance but that is not currently available.

[Tom Sutton]

BS 476-22:1987 Fire tests on building materials and structures. Methods for determination of the fire resistance of non-loadbearing elements of construction.
Surely stability doesn't come in to it, just integrity and insulation and if it has passed the test then both would have passed the test.

Check out http://www.chilternfire.co.uk/technical-information/article/ti-0801-fire-resistance---testing-assessment-and-certification

[Fishy]

I appreciate that this is an older thread, but by way of interest I am in the process of reviewing some doors in a block of flats that have been described as fire doors by the building manager.  They have an apparent uPVC surface finish with nothing to indicate that they are anything other than a standard entrance door.

I have discovered subsequently that they are composite doors, as discussed above, and that they have undergone testing to BS 476-22 with Warrington Fire.  I have read the Warrington  report and it confirms that the test was undertaken successfully in regard to integrity.  No mention is made in the report of testing in regard to stability or insulation.  The doors are being sold as fully compliant 30-minute fire doors.  The following two web sites include them in their product range:

http://www.dorwin.co.uk/products/doors/Composite%20Door%20Specification%20.pdf

http://www.permadoor.co.uk/product-fire.asp

I have requested information relating to stability and insulation performance but that is not currently available.

I'm afraid that you're about 25 years out-of-date, Tall Paul!  No such thing as 'Stability' under either the 1987 standards or the new ENs - that was something measured under the old BS: 476: Part 8 test from 1972. 

The vast majority of fire doors don't need insulation performance, only integrity (or "E" in Euroclass-speak) - see Table B1 of the Approved Document B (if you're in England & Wales).  The only exception would be if the door openings comprise >25% of a comparment wall (See Appendix B, Clause 5).

[Stinky]

Many housing associations are now using Securidor or Permidor fire door sets.  THey are of composite construction.  THey also have a uPVC coating to the door frames.  From a visual inspection the frames just look uPVC and not fire resisting.  But documentation appears to indicate that they are fire doors tested to 476.

http://www.securidor.ltd.uk/firesafe.html

[Midland Retty]

Indeed. I have seen the certs for some of the Permidors, they were tested by Warringtonfire, and conformed to BS476 - They are becoming very very popular.

[Fishy]

Many housing associations are now using Securidor or Permidor fire door sets.  THey are of composite construction.  THey also have a uPVC coating to the door frames.  From a visual inspection the frames just look uPVC and not fire resisting.  But documentation appears to indicate that they are fire doors tested to 476.

http://www.securidor.ltd.uk/firesafe.html

From their website: "non combustible phenolic foam core"  That would be a neat trick.  Someone needs to explain to them what "non combustible" means!