Exit Door Furniture

[jakespop]

All final exits should generally be available without use of a key. In the case of doors which are not designated as "Fire Exits" is it acceptable to lock with a key?

[nearlythere]

All final exits should generally be available without use of a key. In the case of doors which are not designated as "Fire Exits" is it acceptable to lock with a key?

What do you mean by "designated" jakespop?

[Tom Sutton]

All final exit doors in a premises are fire exit doors, only some not in general use have to be indicated. In the event of an emergency you make your way to the nearest available final exit door but it appears most people use the same route they used to enter the premises.

[AnthonyB]

I would disagree, just like you have accommodation stairs that do not require protection the same can apply to final exits.

The RRO clearly states "emergency doors must not be so locked or fastened that they cannot be
easily and immediately opened by any person who may require to use them in an emergency" and the inclusion of the word 'emergency' is key here - not all doors.

If I have a small lock up shop unit (not part of a covered mall shopping centre) with a back door I hardly ever use other than for an odd delivery and travel distances of say about 12 metres I might not want to go to the expense & possible security risk of changing the ironmongery from a 5 lever mortice lock to a panic latch, so don't sign the door as a fire exit and in my risk assessment demonstrate my front door exit is sufficient in consultation with the DCLG guide.

If a door out of a premises or area does not form part of the required means of escape from a building it can be locked with a key, bar, grate, whatever, as long as it will not lead to confusion, for which signage and training come into play.

[Tom Sutton]

If I have a small lock up shop unit (not part of a covered mall shopping centre) with a back door I hardly ever use other than for an odd delivery and travel distances of say about 12 metres I might not want to go to the expense & possible security risk of changing the ironmongery from a 5 lever mortice lock to a panic latch, so don't sign the door as a fire exit and in my risk assessment demonstrate my front door exit is sufficient in consultation with the DCLG guide.

AB are you suggesting if a shopper couldn't get to the front door for any reason they wouldn't try the back door because it didn't have an EXIT sign. The owner can still keep his 5 lever lock its not rocket science to come up with a solution, sash escape lock for instance. I still say every final exit door may be required for MOE if not required brick it up.

[nearlythere]

If I have a small lock up shop unit (not part of a covered mall shopping centre) with a back door I hardly ever use other than for an odd delivery and travel distances of say about 12 metres I might not want to go to the expense & possible security risk of changing the ironmongery from a 5 lever mortice lock to a panic latch, so don't sign the door as a fire exit and in my risk assessment demonstrate my front door exit is sufficient in consultation with the DCLG guide.

AB are you suggesting if a shopper couldn't get to the front door for any reason they wouldn't try the back door because it didn't have an EXIT sign. The owner can still keep his 5 lever lock its not rocket science to come up with a solution, sash escape lock for instance. I still say every final exit door may be required for MOE if not required brick it up.

Tom,
You used a key word here. "I still say every final exit door may be required....." What if it discharged into an enclosed yard?

[Phoenix]

Tom,

AnthonyB has summed it up very succinctly but you still seem to be missing the point.  I might have a small pub, say, with eight exit doors.  But it can only hold 100 people at the very most, so my fire risk assessor has told me I need two fire exits.  I choose one at the front and one at the back, I sign them up, provide appropriate emergency lighting covering the routes to them (probably don't put break glass call points or extinguishers by them because it's a pub) and the other six exits I can do whatever I like with - deadlock them, padlock them, paint them pink, hide them behind curtains, keep man-eating dogs behind them, etc.

I am not compelled to choose between the two extremes that you suggest - either providing them with opening mechanisms suitable for fire exits or bricking them up.

Stu

 

[Phoenix]

Also, Tom,

AB are you suggesting if a shopper couldn't get to the front door for any reason they wouldn't try the back door because it didn't have an EXIT sign.

Why wouldn't this hypothetical shopper be able to get to the front door?  Because the fire has suddenly erupted in a ball of flame as they do in Hollywood (although, admittedly, in Hollywood people are strangely able to walk through burning rooms relatively unhindered by smoke or radiated heat)?  Because there is an amblejam of other hypothetical shoppers trying to squeeze through the hypothetical front door?  Does this hypothetical shop need a rear exit or is it just like the ten thousand others in the country that only have the one exit at the front?   What should all these places do?

If a small shop has a front exit and a rear exit but is only 12m, say, from front to back, are you suggesting that the rear exit must be kept available and marked as a fire exit?

Stu

[wee brian]

Just apply common sense. If there is a risk that somebody could go up a blind alley and get trapped then dont lock the door. if there are three doors all next to each other and one has a big green sign over it then that's OK.

[Tom Sutton]

I concede and accept there could be situations where a small room/hall/area, having more than one final exit, you could consider locking one or more depending on the number who may use it. But I still see it as an exception to the rule and all doors including the final exit door that I would need to pass thorough in the event of a fire should not be locked while the premises is occupied.

As for fire exit signs my rule is simple "All doors not in general use should indicated with a fire exit sign" but you still find them over front/main doors of premises.

As for enclosed yards provide egress to ultimate safety.

[nearlythere]

I concede and accept there could be situations where a small room/hall/area, having more than one final exit, you could consider locking one or more depending on the number who may use it. But I still see it as an exception to the rule and all doors including the final exit door that I would need to pass thorough in the event of a fire should not be locked while the premises is occupied.

As for fire exit signs my rule is simple "All doors not in general use should indicated with a fire exit sign" but you still find them over front/main doors of premises.
As for enclosed yards provide egress to ultimate safety.

But I still see it as an exception to the rule and all doors including the final exit door that I would need to pass thorough in the event of a fire should not be locked while the premises is occupied.
I agree Tom and those which are needed would not be.

[SamFIRT]

Trouble is you still come across doors signed up as FIRE EXIT which the manager has locked for security reasons and has not removed the sign even though the door is obviously not required and the area around it has been in filled with stock. Came across one the other day. Off duty and shopping. We tried to exit a door into the high street and found it to be locked.  When I mentioned the door should be unlocked as it was signed as an EXIT the manager became very shirty and advised me the police has advised her to lock the door due to opportunistic thefts. When I pointed out the exit sign she informed me it was required due to her fire risk assessment. She didn’t seem to associate the dichotomy. Our TFS attended and the sign has been removed. A signed locked door is more dangerous than just a locked door IMO.

Discuss. 

[AnthonyB]

It wouldn't be the first time the resolution to a locked door in a buliding I visit was a simple 'RIP' of the exit sign off the wall above the door!

(After deciding it was superfluous and ensuring responsible and relevant persons were aware and in agreement of course!)

[Midland Retty]

It is a misconception that every single door leading to fresh air is needed for means of escape. Those which aren't required for MOE purposes should not be signed as a fire exit, and can be locked.

I do however take Tom's point in that human behaviour dictates people will try to leave using the same route they entered the building and therefore dependant on the scenarion it is wise to ensure such routes are also available for egress in an emergency.

[Davo]

Jakespop

It all boils down to the RA.
If you can satisfy yourself that routes are plenty and obvious then yes!


davo