The end of the extinguisher servicing industry?

[AnthonyB]

"We don't need no stinking extinguisher engineer!"


http://www.safelincs.co.uk/britannia/

Britannia Fire, one of the 3 remaining UK extinguisher manufacturers with a long history in the industry have come up with a single use disposable extinguisher with a 10 year life and needing NO servicing, just simple user checks each year.

Is it another 600g/1kg Powder for the car, van, boat?

No - it's a 6 litre High Performance AFFF 27A 183B rating AND direct electrical use to 1000V; and
a 6 kilo High Performance ABC Powder 43A 183B and C rating with the usual electrical use approval.

Unless you really need CO2 or have a Class F risk you could never see a service engineer again! And just like Minimax in the early 20th Century replacements if used on a fire are free!

[John Webb]

Interesting that the 'Free Replacement Extinguisher' comes apparently only if you have also called the fire service and got an incident number off them.

And how do they get exemption from the requirements of BS/EN for regular checks 'by a competent person' and the discharge tests?

[TFEM]

What happens when something is dropped onto it, bends the pin and it takes you five minutes to get it out with a pair of pliers?
What happens when it gets taken off the wall and hidden in a corner until the annual engineer visit points out that it's missing?
What happens when it gets hit by a forklift and puts a stonking great dent in it?
What happens when someone uses it directly onto live electrics and then steps into the pool of foam?
What happens to the brief instruction to the new staff member about how to use it?
What happens when the insurance company says "your extinguishers have not been serviced for 10 years....we're not paying out"?
What happens when a kid in a school shoves chewing gum up the hose?
What happens when it gets maliciously discharged....do you have to buy a new one?
What happens when someone decides to pinch the hose?
What happens when you put one on a lorry and don't service it for 10 years....compacted solid.
Etc etc....and yes we do service extinguishers for a living and so did Britannia (as UK Fire) until a couple of years ago.....did they develop this idea and then think they should sell out?
John

[AnthonyB]

Interesting that the 'Free Replacement Extinguisher' comes apparently only if you have also called the fire service and got an incident number off them.

And how do they get exemption from the requirements of BS/EN for regular checks 'by a competent person' and the discharge tests?

Firstly as we know BS are not law. But they do still require an annual check, the design of the extinguisher being such that they deem 'the man on the Clapham omnibus' competent by simply following the instructions on the body.

It is exempt from Extended Services as it is a disposable extinguisher, the 10 years being it's life - once the expiry date had passed it should be discarded, the whole think is a scaling up of the Firemaster disposable product that's been around since the 60's .

Britannia's reusable extinguishers are too expensive to enter the general market (still made here instead of China you see) this is their attempt to renter that market by offering no running costs and double the life of a typical extinguisher (as almost everyone bins them at 5 years now)

[AnthonyB]

What happens when something is dropped onto it, bends the pin and it takes you five minutes to get it out with a pair of pliers? The user identifies this on their routine checks and calls the manufacturer
What happens when it gets taken off the wall and hidden in a corner until the annual engineer visit points out that it's missing? There wouldn't be an engineer any more, the user is responsible for checking it's location
What happens when it gets hit by a forklift and puts a stonking great dent in it? User identifies this in the user checks, any damage requires replacement with new
What happens when someone uses it directly onto live electrics and then steps into the pool of foam? Most live conductors are not at floor level, operator should be at least 1m back
What happens to the brief instruction to the new staff member about how to use it?As always the users responsibility
What happens when the insurance company says "your extinguishers have not been serviced for 10 years....we're not paying out"?They don't need servicing, see you in court
What happens when a kid in a school shoves chewing gum up the hose? Can't do that on a spray nozzle, user checks should highlight this
What happens when it gets maliciously discharged....do you have to buy a new one?Yes, it is a disposable product
What happens when someone decides to pinch the hose? User checks find this, call manufacturer
What happens when you put one on a lorry and don't service it for 10 years....compacted solid.It's not a cartridge extinguisher, it is constantly fluidised under the stored pressure
Etc etc....and yes we do service extinguishers for a living and so did Britannia (as UK Fire) until a couple of years ago.....did they develop this idea and then think they should sell out?
John

Your points are all valid, I'm just trying to think like Britannia would in response. Like the small aerosols they emulate, the chances of anyone taking any notice of the expiry date are remote....

[Tom Sutton]

If you installed these extinguisher I assume you would not meet the recommendations of BS 5306-3-2009 and would this means you would be in contravention of The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005?

[Phoenix]

If you installed these extinguisher I assume you would not meet the recommendations of BS 5306-3-2009 and would this means you would be in contravention of The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005?

Adopting an alternative solution to that recommended by a British Standard does not automatically mean that the requirements of the RR(FS)O have not been complied with.

Stu

[Tom Sutton]

I agree Stu all I can find in the FSO is if necessary the RP should have a competent person to assist him/her for measures for fire-fighting in the premises. However when it comes to maintenance the RP has to ensure the extinguishers are subject to a suitable system of maintenance and are maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order, in good repair and a competent person is not mentioned. So providing the RP can prove he can meet those criteria he/she complies with the FSO.
 

[The Reiver]

After (none too careful) research, the only slight window of hope is via BAFE or similar.

From one of the multitude of RR(FS)O guides

"Third-party certification schemes for fire
protection products and related services are an
effective means of providing the fullest possible
assurances, offering a level of quality, reliability
and safety that non-certificated products may
lack. This does not mean goods and services
that are not third-party approved are less
reliable, but there is no obvious way in which
this can be demonstrated.
Third-party quality assurance can offer comfort
both as a means of satisfying you that goods
and services you have purchased are fit for
purpose, and as a means of demonstrating that
you have complied with the law."

I presume when our marrer from Clapham stands up in court after his DHSS hostel has become charcoal, he will have to prove "best practice" in his fire safety activities. Checking them himself (and therefore certificating himself) after the above has been penned, may not be seen as such by the higher beakage.
It's a thin ice activity but I'm sure some will go for it and then throw blame at the manufacturer when it all goes wrong because the man from Claphams playful nephew set on off and left it half full in situ without telling him and that was never mentioned in the (self) service manual and neither was the fact that Mija pressure gauges (and all their ilk) stick on 'full' with alarming frequency and this kit has two of 'em.

[Davo]

Reiver

I don't think our Risk people would go for these

Now, where did I put my bargepole

davo

[The Reiver]

Next to mine in the barge pole rack Davo 

It be a wee bit funny that our friend from Clapham can now service his own extinguishers, but in the mind of the "must not use without 'proper' training" elf & safety jobsworth brigade, he can't actually operate them without being struck by self righteous lightning and being vapourised into a pretty red aerosol mist (and that brings us neatly onto the next group of dodgy self service extinguishers) 

[Tom Sutton]

More info on this extinguisher. http://firebuyer.com/content/unveiling-next-generation-fire-extinguisher

[AnthonyB]

Interesting how the article claims they invented seize and squeeze extinguishers in 1968 as in the UK Pyrene had introduced this concept several years earlier in their stored pressure and CO2 ranges and the USA had been using it longer. I think what it really means is the UK Fire controlled discharge valve was invented then, not the first use of the operating principle.

Also 'seize & squeeze' was adopted as a trade mark by Chubb in the early 70's after they consolidated the extinguisher range from the various Rampart, Minimax, Read & Campbell and Pyrene used in the early days of Chubb.

Britannia suffer from being British manufacturers (cost) and as long as Chinese stuff remains at pocket money prices I don't think the revolution is here yet....

[nearlythere]

Has anyone researched these to consider whether they and the maintenance regime, or rather the lack of it, would be considered suitable under the Order?
My first impression is that they may tick the boxes and, as such, are compliant.

[Psuedonym]

It's just another desperate sales gimmick to try to rack up a profit. Congratulations on having the bottle to try something but not this. Would you try to sell these things?
The end is nigh for another British firm. Hey ho.