Jailed risk assessor

[The Colonel]

Do you think the jailing of the fire risk assessor at Nottingham Crown Court today is going to make some of the cowboys run for cover? or are they still going to try and make money while they can?

I must admit I am surprised at the jail sentence for the assessor, as no one was injured or died. The judge did comment that those who put profit before safety should be given a message of what to expect.

[kurnal]

Well its been coming for a while and its exactly what the industry needs theres too many cowboys IMO.

[The Colonel]

Kurnal, I agree it is what the industry needs to wake a few people up and realise what they are putting at risk.

[AnthonyB]

Bandwagon time may be coming to a halt - it's become prevalent in recent years to see fire alarm people try and do extinguisher servicing and fall short, general electricians try and do fire alarm work and fall short, extinguisher people try and do fire risk assessments.......etc.

It won't stop all the cowboys, but it will stop some. It won't stop all clients going for the cheapest provider, but it will stop some. But at least it is a start!

[nearlythere]

Does anyone know Mr John O'Rourke's background?

[massey shawe]

Hopefully ripples will turn into floods, some of the worst examples i have seen are ex firemen that have squirted water for 30 years!!!

[AnthonyB]

Him personally, no, but the company is a fire extinguisher maintenance firm that trades from a private address, a typical sole trader type 'garden shed' firm still to be found in the fire extinguisher trade. Not even a member of one of the three main extinguisher trade associations nor third party accredited.

(All public domain info)

Next time I'm that way I'll look out for any extinguishers serviced by them to see how competently they are done as well!

[Tom Sutton]

Check out http://www.chad.co.uk/news/mansfield_pair_jailed_for_hotel_fire_safety_breaches_1_3561159 for a little more info.

Moderator : We have two threads on this subject could they be merged. Less confusion where to post.

[Eli]

I know that the FRSs have been competing to be the first to prosecute an assessor. I think that Nottingham may now have the bragging rights but it won’t open the flood gates of prosecutions I am afraid.

 One in 5 years isn’t a real scare to the cowboy fire risk assessors working out there and if they stick away from high risk sleeping they will never face the courts unless there is a fatal fire in an office or corner shop.

Presumably these hotels have been open since the RRO came in and this was the first inspection they had? Not exactly a scare for the hoteliers either!

 Inspection and prosecutions need to increase and improve, and that’s not going to happen with the cuts to the FRS budgets.

[John]

Him personally, no, but the company is a fire extinguisher maintenance firm that trades from a private address, a typical sole trader type 'garden shed' firm still to be found in the fire extinguisher trade. Not even a member of one of the three main extinguisher trade associations nor third party accredited.

(All public domain info)

Next time I'm that way I'll look out for any extinguishers serviced by them to see how competently they are done as well!

Mr Buck, you are labelled "Fire extinguisher expert" on this forum, so I would assume that as an expert, you will already know that being a member of any trades association, or being third party accredited, does not provide any guarantee that a good job will be done.  I regularly come into contact with accredited companies and members of the three main trades associations who are clearly not competent at all, although it would be fair to say members of one of the three main trades associations are notably worse than others (draw your own conclusions from that statement).  Running a fire safety business from home does not mean that a bad job will be done, anyone can have glitzy offices etc, but working from home, just makes him one of many, indeed hundreds up and down the country, and to save anyone checking, yes, I am also one of the many.  I, personally, have chosen not to renew membership of a trades association because of unfair practices.

I do not know Mr O'Rourke, and I am not fighting his corner, if he has done something stupid he thoroughly deserves to be where he is now, and I for one, am very glad that this prosecution has happened.  I do object to those of us who choose to work from home, and those of us who choose not to join trades associations, and those of us who choose not to become third party accredited, being tarred with the same brush as Mr O'Rourke.

It would, however, be useful to know the failings of his assessment.

[Davo]

John

AnthonyB is probably the leading FE expert in the country.

His point is that being a member of a trades association should reduce the risk of employing a wally!
As you are aware no doubt the industry is trying to rid the sort of cowboy you might find unblocking your sink!

Its a slow process

davo

[John]

Davo, I am aware of Mr Buck's reputation, and on most comments he makes on this forum, I usually agree with him, however, in my opinion, his comments on this thread were unjustified and objectionable, so I took my opportunity to object.  If, as you say, Anthony's point is by joining a trades association it reduces the risk of employing a wally, then a serious rethink is needed very quickly because it clearly is not working.

I would like nothing more than this industry to rid itself of cowboys, I personally don't think it will ever happen.

[Wiz]

I too am not convinced that third party accreditation or membership of a trade organisation is yet any sort of guarantee that those accredited or members are sufficiently competent.

I too agree that 'one man bands' or those operating from domestic premises do not necessarily provide a 'lesser' service than those operating from flashy corporate premises.

[Eli]

But how does the RP know who is good and who is bad?

The concept here is that the RP needs some signposting and third party is the way to do that; I fully accept that some of the extinguisher schemes are c**P but that’s the fault of those wot wrote it and operate it.

If a trade association or a CB isn’t strong enough to kick out those that can't maintain a high standard; third party gets a bad reputation.

Third party has to be robust in order to protect the public and if a company does a bad job the RP should have recourse with the third party and if the complaint is upheld the company should be removed from the listing or be made to put it right.

If you aren’t third party you may be good and you may be rubbish how do people know? More importantly who do they complain too and what recourse have they got?

[Chariot]

If you want to see the value of third party accreditation you just need to look at the construction industry, if this does not convince you that third party accreditation is just a meaningless money making scheme then I do not know what will.

One way of establishing competance is by obtaining references from persons who have used the assessors services before, how about introducing a system whereby inexperienced persons could work alongside those with experience for several years and then when it is felt that they have the necessary level of competence let them conduct solo assessment

I think the main problem today is everybody seems to want other to do for them what they need to do for themselves

If i want some one to fix my car i will ask other who they think does a good job, if i want to go out for a meal i aks if anyone knows of a good resturant, if i need a competent fire risk assessor i would enquire with other businesse who did their and would they recommend them.

In a previous job role i was an auditor for a well known company that audited companies health and safety arrangements for inclusion on one such list. Could I tell you some stories...