Heat detection (halls of residence)

[xwmfs]

Would it be so inherently wrong to put heat detectors (maybe rate of rise) in the common areas?
 (Corridor) that separates’ student bedrooms
All student bedrooms  are fitted with FD30 doors, and smoke detection.
Reason why...... to reduce number of false alarms that are actuated by fumes, steam,
and curling tongs (you boys, what do you get up to!!)

Alternatively I could rip out 50% of the smoke detection and have the bare minimum to comply.

[CivvyFSO]

Yes it would be wrong. The detection there is on part of the means of escape, it is intended to protect persons in rooms off that means of escape, and as such should be smoke detection.

It would be worth considering whether this is a true halls of residence, or whether it has been built in the style of 5-6 bedroomed apartments off a common corridor (i.e. "Cluster" style) This has quite an implication regarding the potential reach of the RRFSO, and the type of alarm system that would be deemed the 'bare-minimum'.

Also, how are the fumes activating the corridor detector instead of the detector within a room?

[xwmfs]

It is a cluster style accommodation, I am fully aware of the basic requirements for early warning in that style of accomodation.
Yes we are subject to the RRO of which we more than fully comply, we are also subject to insurance inspections who seem to deem P1/L1 as an appropriate basis to start.

Fumes are from cooking left unattended, the kitchen door is wedged open and the smoke detection is actuated.
Yes we have induction training, continuation training, but at 3 o' clock in the morning these students are well intoxicated, I could have used another word.

[Wiz]

Do we amend the recommendations to suit the misuse?

How about trying to stop the misuse?

[CivvyFSO]

I agree with Wiz. Many operators of such buildings actually fine students for wedging doors, removing closers, covering detectors etc.

The ideal alarm system for the cluster is one where the cluster itself has its own pt 6 system (LD3 minimum but preferably LD2 with detection in the bedrooms) so any false alarms are only a nuisance to the halfwits leaving the doors open/smoking in their room etc. Further to this, a separate heat detector in the common area, connected to the overall part 1 system. That way the only way that a signal would make it to the main system/concierge/security would be if the HD in the common area actuated. (The overall part 1 system is not truly a requirement if the building is built correctly, but these managed occupancies normally have one anyway.)

The bare minimum is LD3 which still means SD in the common area, so you won't fix the problem by omitting other detection.

[Big A]

Do we amend the recommendations to suit the misuse?

How about trying to stop the misuse?

Yes, in some circumstances we do. For example, we don't put call points and fire extinguishers adjacent to exit doors from licensed premises.

[memnon30]

To stop the misuse is it possible to have the power to the cookers on timers so they cannot be used late at night/early morning.
Would increased extraction in the kitchens and the nearest SD being  changed to CO help?
Just a thought.

[SamFIRT]

To stop the misuse is it possible to have the power to the cookers on timers so they cannot be used late at night/early morning.

In just such a scenario the superbly intelligent     undergraduates pursuing their academic careers, simply got out their camping stoves and ignited the kitchen that way, with the help of a wok full of fat.

People always think it won’t happen to them, that they know better than everyone else, rules are for the proletariat ( and not them)  and fire safety (& H&S for that matter) is a complete bureaucratic waste of time. You hear it every day on the news with private industry wanting to remove unnecessary red tape in order to save money so they can pay it into the bank. 

 

End of rant 

Sorry. 

[Wiz]

To stop the misuse is it possible to have the power to the cookers on timers so they cannot be used late at night/early morning.

In just such a scenario the superbly intelligent     undergraduates pursuing their academic careers, simply got out their camping stoves and ignited the kitchen that way, with the help of a wok full of fat.

People always think it won’t happen to them, that they know better than everyone else, rules are for the proletariat ( and not them)  and fire safety (& H&S for that matter) is a complete bureaucratic waste of time. You hear it every day on the news with private industry wanting to remove unnecessary red tape in order to save money so they can pay it into the bank. 

 

End of rant 

Sorry. 

I still feel immediate expulsion, with no refund of any fees paid, from their academy, for breaking any rules is the only way these people might pay heed to those rules.


Sam, have you ever run a business?

Until you have, you have no idea how much time and money is expended by businesses trying to keep up with all the red tape generated by 'Authorities'.

And always remember that 'business' pays absolutely everybody's wages. Yours included.

We should nurture business, not try to strangle it!

[SamFIRT]

And always remember that 'business' pays absolutely everybody's wages. Yours included.

As ever with people who espouse the virtues of private enterprise the end comment is always a short sighted one about money. 

It is always about profit and loss, reducing cost to maximise profit and therefore not carrying out what is usually perceived as unnecessary work created by red tape. Because it won't happen to me....... will it?? 

History shows again and again the problem is; what private enterprise feels is an unnecessary expenditure is a potential life saver along with being actually a potential reduction in loss to the business and wider community alike (saving cost in the long run). Difficulty with H&S and FS work is that it prevents something occurring ( hopefully) and therefore can never be balanced in a accounts spread sheet. It is cheaper by far to put the costs onto the wider community, relying on public services to be there in emergencies ( but not wanting to pay for them), then complaining about them afterwards.

Therefore, like children; private businesses ( and public and third sector services) need to be disciplined to carry out safety functions.

Elsewise we will see out of control teenagers (like the riots) and out of control businesses ( like banks) 

[Wiz]

And always remember that 'business' pays absolutely everybody's wages. Yours included.

As ever with people who espouse the virtues of private enterprise the end comment is always a short sighted one about money. 

It is always about profit and loss, reducing cost to maximise profit and therefore not carrying out what is usually perceived as unnecessary work created by red tape. Because it won't happen to me....... will it?? 

History shows again and again the problem is; what private enterprise feels is an unnecessary expenditure is a potential life saver along with being actually a potential reduction in loss to the business and wider community alike (saving cost in the long run). Difficulty with H&S and FS work is that it prevents something occurring ( hopefully) and therefore can never be balanced in a accounts spread sheet. It is cheaper by far to put the costs onto the wider community, relying on public services to be there in emergencies ( but not wanting to pay for them), then complaining about them afterwards.

Therefore, like children; private businesses ( and public and third sector services) need to be disciplined to carry out safety functions.

Elsewise we will see out of control teenagers (like the riots) and out of control businesses ( like banks) 

Yes, it is all about profit and loss. If business makes a profit the State has money to spend. If business makes a loss the State has no other sources of income. Then we would have no services whatsoever.

So yes, crush the life out of buisnesses with unnecessary red-tape and just see where it gets us!

[wee brian]

You are both right. It's all about balance and proportionality.

[colin todd]

Brian , you are on the wrong bulletin board, and indeed in the wrong profession if you are looking for balance and proportionality.

[Midland Retty]

I still feel immediate expulsion, with no refund of any fees paid, from their academy, for breaking any rules is the only way these people might pay heed to those rules.

Sam, have you ever run a business?

Thats the problem Wiz, Universities will only very rarely expel pupils (unless they do something extremely bad)

The University is a business, a loss of a pupil is a loss of revenue, a loss of fees, and there lies the problem!

[colin todd]

Not like when you and I were at uni Retty and they paid us to go there.