Author Topic: Burning issues top 5  (Read 42423 times)

Midland Retty

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 12:56:47 PM »

1. Non uniformed inspecting officers. There is probably a lot of good however there is also some very poor ones who cling on to the guides as if they are willy wonkers golden ticket.

Hmm think thats rather a sweeping statement Piglet. Both uniformed and non uniformed inspectors can be guilty of that. And remember just because someone has ridden a big red fire engine and put out loads of fires, doesn't make them a good fire safety inspector necessarily!

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2011, 01:56:14 PM »
1. Non uniformed inspecting officers. There is probably a lot of good however there is also some very poor ones who cling on to the guides as if they are willy wonkers golden ticket.

And do you think that this is unique to civilian FRS staff?

I have been working for a FRS which implemented civilian inspectors quite a long time ago, and in my totally biased (of course!) opinion it has worked out well. None of the civilian staff are doing it just to get the 'fire safety' tick in the box for promotion, none of them are only here for 3, 4 or 5 years seeing the days out until retirement, none of them are here begrudgingly because they are too unfit to run up and down ladders, and they all bring different skills and qualities with them.

Looking at the other end... It is generally a certain demographic who want to join the FRS to be a firefighter, and all the tests that people take to become a firefighter are not aimed at anything remotely linked to future competence in enforcement. So should we always limit the pool of potential inspectors to people who have performed well on the chester step test and people who are happy to dangle off a ladder?

Midland Retty

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2011, 02:21:41 PM »
Well put Civvy

And just to add most "non uniformed" inspectors have worked out in the big wide world, rather than just the fire service and bring with them wider awareness and experience of the business / private sector.



Offline SamFIRT

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2011, 04:44:32 PM »
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Well put Civvy

And just to add most "non uniformed" inspectors have worked out in the big wide world, rather than just the fire service and bring with them wider awareness and experience of the business / private sector.

All of which I agree with Civvy and Midland.

But neither have they laid on their belly staring the big red monster in the face as it rolls over the ceiling above them etc etc etc.  ;)

I work with both uniformed and non-uniformed FS IO’s. I have the deepest respect for both and I think they both have their pros and cons. If they work well together synergistically they produce an excellent symbiosis in the application of fire safety. However for this to happen there has to be mutual respect.

Same is true in the FI field actually.  :D
Sam

Offline BLEVE

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2011, 06:40:43 PM »
Why would you be on your belly at flashover???? :o

Offline Phoenix

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2011, 07:07:59 PM »
Why would you be on your belly at flashover???? :o


better than being on your tippy toes...


....but not as good as being off duty and in the pub.


The smoke alarms in my kitchen never go off.  I eat out all the time.

If you eat out all the time why do you have a kitchen?



Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2011, 07:49:27 PM »
But neither have they laid on their belly staring the big red monster in the face as it rolls over the ceiling above them etc etc etc.  ;)

And how exactly does this make anyone a better inspecting officer?

Anyway, I watched backdraft, it's essentially the same thing but not as hot.

I still wonder why they haven't civilianised fire investigation yet........  :-X

Offline BLEVE

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2011, 08:11:51 PM »

And how exactly does this make anyone a better inspecting officer?

Anyway, I watched backdraft, it's essentially the same thing but not as hot.

I still wonder why they haven't civilianised fire investigation yet........  :-X
[/quote]
I think staring at red monsters is mandatory, that and keeping Donald Sutherland locked behind bars

Offline SamFIRT

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2011, 10:25:14 PM »
From Civvy
Quote
I still wonder why they haven't civilianised fire investigation yet........  

They have.  ;)
Sam

Offline BLEVE

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2011, 10:48:10 PM »
hmm may be they shouldnt have. particularly where said investigator has a strange grasp of smoke stratification :P
Problem with the interweb is that anyone can claim to be xy or z
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 11:38:41 PM by BLEVE »

Offline SamFIRT

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2011, 07:33:13 AM »
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Problem with the interweb is that anyone can claim to be xy or z

True ... Oh so true.  :D

As I have said before on this forum there is a big difference between learning, understanding and knowledge .  :-*
Sam

Offline Tom Sutton

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2011, 10:11:18 AM »
The need for IO's to have operation experience was discounted many years ago and does it matter as fire safety departments will in the very near future be totally manned by civilians or retired FRS personnel. Eventually it will be civilians only and the criticism will continue if they keep opposing FR assessors.
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Tom W

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2011, 09:16:57 AM »
My comment was a sweeping statement and perhaps should of had more explanation. I worry at the level of experience they have when going off into the big red world.

I don't disagree with the idea of it but why did civvys get into it? Out of interest, was it because they are cheaper than there more experienced counter parts or was there a shortfall?

As a couple of you have pointed out being a FF does not mean you are fully qualified to be a FSO but it does at least mean you understand fire in buildings and you know where problems can be. Does it not?


Offline nearlythere

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2011, 09:45:02 AM »
Out of interest, was it because they are cheaper than there more experienced counter parts or ...............?

Exactly. This was the only reason.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline CivvyFSO

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Re: Burning issues top 5
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2011, 10:35:22 AM »
I don't think that simply being a firefighter gives you much of an advantage at all. Yes, firefighters will know about fire behaviour, neutral layers, flashover, backdraft etc, but as inspectors our intervention and influence is well before that. By the time things like flashover are likely the 'relevant people' are stood outside the building watching the firefighters go about their jobs.

Buildings have been designed by non-fire-service-staff for years. Remember it is Building Control who ensure that Part B is met, and Building Control does not consist of firefighters. (Granted, many BC bodies rely too heavily on FRS input for part B matters, but some are quite capable)

In the days of the FP Act when firefighters were tasked with fire certificate inspections, then this will have been a good grounding in fire safety that would have been to their advantage in any shift over to fire safety. But give this same task to any civilian and it will be just as useful for the civilian.

I believe that the main problem to be addressed with civilian staff doing FP is the potential for ops to lose their fire safety knowledge. I am sure many of the ex SC's ADO's here will have used their own fire safety knowledge to their advantage when taking control of an incident at some point.