Author Topic: Escape route glazing  (Read 8759 times)

Offline Mar62

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
Escape route glazing
« on: August 24, 2011, 12:42:09 PM »
Hi all, I have a query I would like to ask some advice regarding glazing on a ground floor external escape route. The premises is a Grade 2 listed building and has recently been refurbished to house a child care centre and a drugs / alcohol centre. It is part single storey and part 2 storey (the child care is the 2 storey part). At the base of the enclosed staircase from 1st floor there is a final exit which leads to a play area. From here there is only one escape route which leads along a pathway around the exterior boundary of the building, distance of the walkway is approx 16 metres. The problem is the glazing along the walkway, it is normal 4mm glazing and has been coated with a film to make it acceptable as safety glass. I am aware of the ‘rule’ about ensuring windows on a fire escape being fire resistant and so would assume the same would be for an escape route of this nature? I have questioned it and was told that the local authority planning and building control have told them they must keep the old crittal windows and that BC have visited site several times and have not insisted on the glazing being changed. I am tempted to insist the glazing be changed. Any advice would be gratefully received.....
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?

Offline nearlythere

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4351
Re: Escape route glazing
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 02:07:39 PM »
Hi all, I have a query I would like to ask some advice regarding glazing on a ground floor external escape route. The premises is a Grade 2 listed building and has recently been refurbished to house a child care centre and a drugs / alcohol centre. It is part single storey and part 2 storey (the child care is the 2 storey part). At the base of the enclosed staircase from 1st floor there is a final exit which leads to a play area. From here there is only one escape route which leads along a pathway around the exterior boundary of the building, distance of the walkway is approx 16 metres. The problem is the glazing along the walkway, it is normal 4mm glazing and has been coated with a film to make it acceptable as safety glass. I am aware of the ‘rule’ about ensuring windows on a fire escape being fire resistant and so would assume the same would be for an escape route of this nature? I have questioned it and was told that the local authority planning and building control have told them they must keep the old crittal windows and that BC have visited site several times and have not insisted on the glazing being changed. I am tempted to insist the glazing be changed. Any advice would be gratefully received.....
What is the use of the rooms which have the glazed elements?
What height is the glazing above ground level?
Is the play area big enough that persons can put sufficient distance between them and the building so as not to be exposed to a risk from a fire?
It seems a long way to go from the second floor to find that the end of the route has been effected by fire.
Remember you are doing the assessment not BC.
We're not Brazil we're Northern Ireland.

Offline Tom Sutton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: Escape route glazing
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 03:12:09 PM »
Can you duck under the FR glazing to pass safely.

How wide is the pathway can you move away from the FR glazing is it far enough so the radiation reduces to a level were it would be safe to pass. There was a nomogram which allowed you to calculate the safe distance but I don't know if it is available today.
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline Mar62

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
Re: Escape route glazing
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2011, 03:20:46 PM »
Hi Tom no you wouldn't be able to duck under due to height and the pathway is only one paving slab wide with wooden fence along it.
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?

Offline CivvyFSO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1583
Re: Escape route glazing
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2011, 08:42:23 PM »
Can a fire take out the primary escape route AND these windows?

Offline Phoenix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 677
  • Get a bicycle. You will not live to regret it
    • MetaSolutions (Fire Safety Engineering) Ltd.
Re: Escape route glazing
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 10:08:00 PM »
Hi Martin,

Civvy makes a good point.  Do the rooms on the inside of these windows communicate with the primary escape route inside the building and, if so, is it through fire resisting doors?  If there are fire doors between these rooms and the main staircase then a good deal of your problem simply doesn't exist; the theory being that a fire in any of these rooms (that adjoin the external route) will not take out the primary route (because of the fire doors) so everyone can just use this primary route and the external doesn't matter.  People will only use the rear escape route when the fire is somewhere else in the building and affecting access to or use of the main staircase (in which case, it cannot be in one of the rooms adjacent to the side walkway).

There are a couple of issues with this simple response though.  If the separation between the primary escape staircase and the rooms is a single line of fire resistance (e.g. a single fire door) then this line of fire resistance has critical importance in the evacuation strategy and possibly has too much dependence placed upon it to maintain safe means of escape throughout the building.  This is not a terminal problem as the single line of fire resistance may be able to be augmented by an L3 fire alarm system (which the building may already have).  Early response to an evacuation signal will drastically and very significantly reduce the possibility of both routes being lost to a single fire.  If there is a known history of these fire doors being wedged open then this problem will have to be addressed (perhaps, for example, by magnetic hold-open devices).

Another issue which must be considered is the possible presence of people in the back yard when a fire occurs in one of the rooms that adjoin the escape route down the side.  These people might be inclined to use the side route in preference to any other and should be afforded protection when they do so.  They may have an alternative route through the building, separated from the fire room by fire resistance, and this would be fine, but they may not.  The travel distance you give is not great and if automatic detection is located in the rooms adjoining the side escape route then it would be very difficult to imagine a fire in one of these rooms growing to such a size, before people can safely get past, that it will make it difficult for people to make their way down the external path that is outside the room of origin.  Make sure the alarm is audible outside.

I think some simple fire separation and automatic smoke detection can provide you with a solution.

Note that if the route is more than 1800mm wide, we wouldn't worry about it at all as people would be deemed to be far enough away at 1800mm so that a fire would not be capable of stopping them from using the walkway - an old and possibly out of date view - the situation is much more likely to be made safe by the installation of appropriate AFD.

Stu


Offline Mar62

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
Re: Escape route glazing
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 09:00:08 AM »
Thanks for your replys  :) Thanks Stu!
The rooms that look onto the walkway do lead onto the primary internal escape route. These rooms all have brand new FD30s doors. The staircase is separated from this route by solid brick and an older style FD which has a small gap between frame and door (door slightly warped) and is going to be dealt with by the builder. The premises has been fitted with a new L3 system with combined sounder/detectors. There is no available history of doors being wedged as the building has been referbished for a new organisation to move into but its something I will build into the FRA. The door between the two parts of the centre is access controlled due to the intended presence of children. Unfortunately the external route is only one square slab wide so probably not even a metre. To be honest, one of the biggest risks I think is located to the front of the building where the drug/alcohol counselling service will be held (illicet smoking). Thanks for your reply's, think I have got things a little clearer in my head now.
Each and every day is a learning curve and today is one of those days?