High Court orders evacuation of Dublin Apartment block

[DavyFire]

Check the link http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1014/prioryhall.html

A Dublin High Court Judge orders the evacuation of the complete block by monday 17th October. The Fire Brigade will have to maintain a prescence onsite until then.

The apartment owners probably have huge negative equity (after property bust and bank bust) and now learn their apartments could burn down.

And they still depend on fire certification

[kurnal]

No doubt the judge wanted to be sure.To be sure.

Does anyone know at what stage the defects came to light? Does not sound like the sort of defects that would be identified without a destructive examination I would have thought. 

[DavyFire]

Kurnal,
         The RTE news report states 'A schedule of remedial works was originally agreed with the developers in December 2009 but it was never carried out'
It seems a blatant case of the developers doing what they want, with no regard for the safety of the residents. The developers may conveniently go bankrupt and not be able to do the necessary upgrades

[Tom Sutton]

And they still depend on fire certification

What is your point Davy are you suggesting if fire legislation similar to the UK was in force this wouldn't have happened?

[DavyFire]

Tom,
      My point is there is a lot of condemnation of the self regulation of Fire safety, be it RRO in E & W or the equivalent in Scotland or N. Ireland. Many posters hark back to the old days of fire certification.
It appears certification didn't work in Dublin

[nearlythere]

Why would the certification process of the old days have made a difference to a block of flats?

[Eli]

I may be wrong but my understanding of the way it works in Ireland is that the plans get certificated (approved) but the building isn’t inspected or approved post build. That’s why they have been able to ‘chuck’ stuff up without any regard to built in fire protection. I don’t think this is an isolated incident; according to the people I have been speaking with it is standard practice for construction firms to not meet the as plan passive requirements. I know that the ASFP in Ireland are doing a lot of the spade work to get Fire Risk Assessments (as we know them) introduced, as I understand, under health and safety legislation!

[Tom Sutton]

Tom,
      My point is there is a lot of condemnation of the self regulation of Fire safety, be it RRO in E & W or the equivalent in Scotland or N. Ireland. Many posters hark back to the old days of fire certification.
It appears certification didn't work in Dublin

Davy the OSRA and FPA last about 43 years the RR(FS)O 5 years there is no meaningful way to compare past fire safety legislation with the RR(FS)O we will have to waits few years longer. But I do not think this is about fire safety legislation its about Building Regulations.

I understand the Fire Brigade processes the Fire Safety Certificates applications which is is a certificate issued by the Building Control Authority which states that the works or building to which the application relates will, if constructed in accordance with the plans and specifications submitted, comply with the requirements of Technical Guidance Documents Part B of the Second Schedule to the Building Regulations 1997.

As Eli says " the building isn’t inspected or approved post build " and the local authority is trying to sort this one out because of the perceived dangers and of course the fire brigade is involved.

http://www.dublincity.ie/WaterWasteEnvironment/DublinFireBrigade/FirePrevention/Pages/BuildingControlFireSafetyCertificatesFAQ.aspx#what%20is%20it%20all%20about

[Davo]

Hi Prof

I seem to think there was another thread back in the day, I think NT posted a newspaper link


regards

davo

[BLEVE]

For the benefit of the Kurnal, Begorrah and to be sure, to be sure, Póg mo Thóin, etc, Ah Bleve, your Oirish, that explains it....................

Tom, I think you meant to refer to the TGD B Building Regs 2006 rather than 1997 to be accurate or to be sure to be sure to be sure etc

Eli, as for FRA applicable to places of work, these have been required under the SHWAW General Application Regulations and the SHWAW Act 2005. The ASFP would want to catch up don't ya think  

Reckon Priory Hall is the tip of the iceberg if you ask me, have inspected many developments post construction and fire safety leaves alot to be desired.
 

[kurnal]

I agree  similar problems are widespread in England too. I think its down to the demise of the Clerk of Works and the fact that too many completion certificates are issued without the Building Inspector leaving their desk.

[Eli]

Bleve I know it has but only as a small part of the overall H and S assessment I have seen a few and they are very very very limited hence the ASFP are pushing for a risk assessment that is more like the ones we have here under the risk based legislation. In fact on the Irish health and safety web site there is an example of a fire risk assessment. I challenge you not to laugh when you see it.

You have to register but it’s worth it http://www.hsa.ie/eng/

Be smart to be sure!

[BLEVE]

Eli
I disagree, I have carried out many a detailed FRA under the General Application Regulations.

Equally, many FRA in the UK are not S&S and are not worth the paper written upon.

 

[BLEVE]

To be fair the HSA is not even at the starting gate,yet alone have a ticket to the races when it comes to fire safety.

Inspectors have not got a clue.

[Eli]

For a detailed report on this try http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1117654

It's long but does have more detail and confirms that the Irish system is not very good.