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Author Topic: Fastenings on doors  (Read 11170 times)

robertb

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Fastenings on doors
« on: July 15, 2005, 10:59:37 AM »
We have a fire exit which is causing us a security problem.
The exit is fitted with
1/ A green break glass emergency release point.
2/ linked to the fire alarms.
3/ Has a manual fire call point positioned close.
4/ Will fail safe in a power cut.
The green emergency release is constantly being used by visitors to exit the door.
My question is can we remove this green break glass point? or is it a requirement to have it. We have tried plastic covers but these have failed to stop the problem. Risk assessment tells me to get rid of it but is this legal.

BS 5839 pt3 we must have:-
detectors (we have)
provided with a ready means of manual operation (does a fire alarm MCP suffice?staff would be trained to know the MCP would release the door, visitors would not be aware of this)
Activated by loss of power (it does)
Activated by the fire alarm (it does)
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Offline Robert Bacon

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2005, 11:14:05 AM »
Sorry forgot I had a user name, the above is from, Streaky (member)
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Offline wee brian

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2005, 01:43:08 PM »
streaky

I think it would be better to ask why people keep using a door you don't want them to.

There arn't any specific rules but taking away the breakglass will probably mean you have to leave the door unlocked.
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Chris Houston

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2005, 02:33:27 PM »
How about a massive sign saying the door is alarmed and a local alarm on it?
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Offline Robert Bacon

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2005, 04:06:52 PM »
Wee Brian, it's a short cut to the car park.
Chris, my thoughts too guess what  this kid will be making Monday, yep a massive sign. On Tuesday I will be stood there ready to chop thier fingers off!!
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Offline wee brian

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2005, 07:42:30 PM »
How do they know its a short cut to the park? If its because they can see through the door maybe put some obscure glass in it.

Signs are OK - alarms are better but some people will just do what they like.
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Offline Brian Catton

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2005, 05:06:56 PM »
I take it that as this post is on the healthcare site the premises are healthcare premises. I would like you to be more specific as to use.
If the security risk outweighs the fire risk and all those other control measures are in place and regularly tested I cannot see why the green box cannot be taken out. I would however that it is replaced by a switch (operated by a special key) so that the staff can test weekly that the door will open. (and record the results of the test.
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Offline wee brian

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2005, 09:03:06 AM »
The idea of the green box is that it allows people to escape even when the alarm is not operating.

If your risk assessment shows that

a: you dont need the exit

b: you will never have a fire

then get rid of the box.
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Offline Robert Bacon

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2005, 09:08:12 AM »
Brian, Yes this is a PCT hospital, in sunny Dorset.
The plot thickens with this door.
The door is on automatic magnetic hold open during the day.
At 16:00 the door is released automatically and closed
This is to prevent visitors, and unsavoury persons from entry to an area of the hospital which is unmanned from 16:00. However staff still need access to this area and have electronic key fobs to open the door.
Visitors use the green box to open the door.short cut to car park after 16:00
The idea of a switch operated by a special key sounds interesting, because that facility is already fitted ie the staff electronic key fob system.
Anyway risk assessment tells me we would not require the exit at night for fire evacuation.
Im going down the route to have the box removed.
The door will release on activation of a MCP or detector
Thanks for the the advice, with fire alarm companys telling us we need green buttons, breakglass boxes, override switches, linked to fire alarms, HTMs, and all the other legislation it becomes confusing and expensive. Risk assessment is great idea but scary when you have no one for a second opinion
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Offline Brian Catton

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Fastenings on doors
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2005, 07:39:07 PM »
We have electronic locks operated by key fobs in our offices. It is worth bearing in mind that if you only need to use the fob to enter the building or part of it is sometimes best to use an electronic keep rather than a magnetic type plate on the door. In this way by only putting a handle on the escape side to operate the catch you do not require a switch or the green box, As the door opens normally from the escape side but is secure on the outside. I am not saying that this would solve your particular problem but it is worth knowing as a general principle.
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