Real Fire Demonstration

[cbfire999]

Hi all

We have been asked by a large retail group to provide a 'Fire Safety Day' for managers and on the 'wish list' is for them to be able to see a mock up of a retail store on fire to demonstate the speed in which it could burn.  Whilst we appreciate that it will be difficult to get an exact mock up, we were considering a similar 'fire loading' would suffice for demo purposes.  Does anyone any idea whether there is anywhere in the UK that could provide such a demonstration?  Currently in toach with a couple of fire colleges but awaiting replies!  The ideal would be similar to the 'sitting room fire' that was made many years ago but cost could be the stumbling block!!

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks

[Golden]

If you could get hold of the original of this video or a similar one showing crisps alight and some interesting human behaviour I think it may do the trick, I first came across a similar one at the FSC and it does demonstrate the growth of fire quite well. To mock up a fire would be horrendously difficult in my opinion and cost a fortune.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b74_1195215847

[cbfire999]

Thanks for the reply.  Whilst I agree that is a good video it is not what the client wants and at this stage money is not a problem as such!!  Video's during a Basic Fire Safety brief are great tools, but this needs to be a little bit more advanced than this as it is the realisation that the group want to get across.  Thanks

[Northern Uproar]

We've been to the FSc at Moreton for live fire/flashover demos (not specific to a sitting room, but graphic nontheless). The training centre at Washington Hall, Chorely, may also have facilities available.

[Golden]

You could also try Essex FB as they have the compartment fire demonstrator at Wethersfield http://www.essexfiretraining.co.uk/ or even if the defence fire training are still operating out of RAF Manston the guys down there used to put on a good demo for me when I was in London's R & D department but I'm not sure they're available for commercial hire.

[William 29]

Sorry I don't undertstand why you would want to go to these lengths or the benefits it would provide to your client??  A suitable DVD would be more than adequate.

[cbfire999]

Why go to these lengths when a DVD would do?!!  Simple answer - that is what has been asked for!

Thanks to those who have replied.  I have been in touch with a couple of providers and there are options out there.  For the record, RAF Manston which is now, DFTDC Manston do do commercial and Kent FR currently use them as do many others. Great facilities but need something more central.

As a CFBTi during my military career, I know just how impressive these demo's can be and if commentated on correctly, far outstrip any DVD out there!

Thanks again

[kurnal]

Sounds a bit like the old fashioned "You have to burn 'em to learn 'em approach".

Good luck but like William I cannot see this being cost effective in terms of learning outcomes.

Films like the old BRE favourite "Your office fire" do a great job of viewing the growth of a real fire in real time. Station nightclub video and case history of the Chesterfield Littlewoods fire may also be useful.
 They will not appreciate the problems of managing a real fire emergency from a demonstration such as this. Fire is a dynamic hazard but predictable. Human behavior is the real problem and whilst equally predictable is harder to control.

[John Webb]

Undoubtedly as the Fire Research Station/BRE did the original 'Front Room Fire' and much work on department stores and the like as well, and have the facilities, I'd contact them at www.bre.co.uk.

[cbfire999]

Thanks John, I will look in to that.  Kurnal, I respect your opinion on this but I believe that you are wrong, but then that is my opinion! Station fire is good, but not for all audiences and the 'scare them' approach does not work either!  When a demonstration is carried out with the correct terminology and commentary much can be learnt and add to this the 'videos' etc and a course to remember is born!  Death by PowerPoint can be so painful! Admit it, we have all endured that!

[kurnal]

  Kurnal, I respect your opinion on this but I believe that you are wrong,

Well if I am it would not be the first time.

 In my experience though people never prepare properly for murphys Law which always creates additional problems in managing a real fire, power failures, telephone failures,smoke going where it is not supposed to,  people not doing what they are supposed to do, etc. I find putting them under real pressure in role based scenarios most effective. Making them actively participate rather than being mute observers of a presentation and demonstration. They become so good at managing false alarms and evacuation drills that they never perceive the additional problems a real fire brings.

Good luck.

[AnthonyB]

It wouldn't be that realistic unless they were in it & obviously that isn't going to happen, if you went to the crazy expense of buliding a retail unit and burning it it would be just the same as watching a video but they would be a little bit hotter from the radiant heat as they watch from a safe distance.

Bradford, Threshers, Station Nightclub and the BRE stuff has a good enough impact from experience. I'd also use the old 70's NFPA Jolema film & 70's classic 'Fire and smoke' if the WMV copies I had were of good enough quality.

I wonder of the New Look CCTV caught the event unfolding, it's a pity it won't circulate like the Threshers video did.

[SamFIRT]

Thanks John, I will look in to that.  Kurnal, I respect your opinion on this but I believe that you are wrong, but then that is my opinion! Station fire is good, but not for all audiences and the 'scare them' approach does not work either!  When a demonstration is carried out with the correct terminology and commentary much can be learnt and add to this the 'videos' etc and a course to remember is born!  Death by PowerPoint can be so painful! Admit it, we have all endured that!

True oh so true

Sounds to me that you are on to a winner with your course content CBFire. Keep up the planning !

Feel the heat and smell the smoke is important. There is too much sanitation in training; watching videos / PowerPoint all the time can cause the message “fire is safe because I do not feel threatened by it” to be subliminally reinforced. Look how many people think that you can walk through, let alone see through, a fully involved compartment fire after viewing that technical masterpiece Backdraught?

 

[AnthonyB]

But would 'elf & safety' & the insurers actually let non fire-fighters anywhere near real heat and smoke on the scale proposed in the real post?

I do agree you can't beat the real thing (or as near as). I learnt on live fire & prefer that to simulators and LPG rigs, I did the rescue exercises in pitch black rooms with stage smoke in with no BA and the 'take a breath and you are dead/have failed' and am glad I did, plus was first on scene at a blazing garage and know how bad it is just sticking your head in quickly to shout to see if anyone is stuck let alone having to go inside (not that the brigade did as a rescue wasn't needed).

It just seems a bit much to build a (for arguments sake) duplicate Threshers to set alight if the people won't be allowed anywhere near it (whereas at one time you could chuck on some turnout gear and be allowed up close and personal).

If you could get to do it and get the course participants actually close enough to it it would be very good I would have to admit that. If you do, get it filmed for cascade training as you won't get the chance to do it again that often!

[Fishy]

Chiltern International Fire in High Wycombe used to do this type of thing - they even had a three-bed semi that they used to set light to on a regular basis!  Could be worth a call - http://www.chilternfire.co.uk/fire-behaviour-services