FA Cabling

[nearlythere]

Was speaking to a Fire Alarm Engineer this morning who advised me that white cabling is not permitted any longer (must be orange) and cabling cannot be "concealed". I'm sure he was telling me it must be clipped to the wall or ceiling surfaces.

Any comments on this please.

[kurnal]

Nope. Remember the BS is a recommendation not a requirement.

Cable fixings are covered in detail and conduit specifications are discussed. Theres a wide range of options the most important generalisation  being that whatever method is used the fixings must be fire resisting.

As for colour

o)All fire alarm cables should be of a single, common colour that is not used for cables of general
electrical services in the building, to enable these cables to be distinguished from those of other circuits.
NOTE 13 The colour red is preferred.

[Wiz]

Was speaking to a Fire Alarm Engineer this morning who advised me that white cabling is not permitted any longer (must be orange) and cabling cannot be "concealed". I'm sure he was telling me it must be clipped to the wall or ceiling surfaces.

Any comments on this please.

What a load of rubbish! 

(further derogatory comments available upon request)

[nearlythere]

Was speaking to a Fire Alarm Engineer this morning who advised me that white cabling is not permitted any longer (must be orange) and cabling cannot be "concealed". I'm sure he was telling me it must be clipped to the wall or ceiling surfaces.

Any comments on this please.

What a load of rubbish! 
(further derogatory comments available upon request)

Thanks chaps. That's what I thought but considered it appropriate to hold my tongue and check first in case I had gone to sleep for a year and there were amendments to the standard during that time.

I am getting absolutely pee'ed off with installers not listening to the brief when I want a job priced. This particular job is quite small and I have assessed it as low risk with a manual already installed with some detection in place. System not old but not functioning and all I want is manual repaired with a 2 zone panel installed incorporating 2 detectors because of inner room conditions.
One team I got to survey quoted for what it saw as needing a Cat L1 system. One "requirement by law" was a heat detector in a staff canteen because it had a microwave.
Another wanted to change all the cabling because it is white and also existing cabling cannot be use as it is concealed. &*@+*$!

I keep getting "what about the variation.......?"  I wish it was legal, even compulsory, to slap people for being stupid.

I got so cheesed off that I have produced a drawing of exactly where I want the components installed, a document explaining what I want and why and a copy of the relevant sections of the FRA.

Will this work? Doubt it.

[David Rooney]

Have you asked them to quote the paragraph numbers to back up the tosh they're talking?

[nearlythere]

Have you asked them to quote the paragraph numbers to back up the tosh they're talking?

Going to do that tomorrow.

[Graeme]

Was speaking to a Fire Alarm Engineer this morning who advised me that white cabling is not permitted any longer (must be orange) and cabling cannot be "concealed". I'm sure he was telling me it must be clipped to the wall or ceiling surfaces.

Any comments on this please.

is he a fire alarm engineer? total bs

[Bill J]

As already stated, Red is the preferred Colour, and concealed cabling is acceptable, as long as the cable is appropriately supported when concealed in false ceilings.

I can only suggest that you approach certified Fire Alarm Companies and STILL check out any concerns on this forum. Yesterday I looked at an installation by a reputable FA company, third party certificated, and they had installed mains powered domestic smoke alarms, installed in White FP, very nice lookng installation, linked via a relay and Zone monitor (Correctly Zoned, texted and addressed)into an addressable Fire alarm, because there was not enough capacity to add 8 new devices.

No Certificate left on site, but the original quotation confirmed it would be to BS5839 Part 1 Category L3

We maintain the FA system for the Landlord, there are 30 spare addresses on the open protocol loop, it would probably have been easier and have cost less, to do the job correctly, each device would have had text, and the new devices would be monitored for faults, shared the back up power supply with the Fire Alarm System, wouldnt need batteries changing every couple of years.....

The Mind boggles!

[nearlythere]

Done a little research and found that the business only has accreditation by the NICEIC. That might explain it.

[Graeme]

they had installed mains powered domestic smoke alarms,, linked via a relay and Zone monitor (Correctly Zoned, texted and addressed)into an addressable Fire alarm, because there was not enough capacity to add 8 new devices.

 

do you mean they only had a couple of spare addresses on the loop?  why did they not add the ZMU with non addressable detectors?

[David Rooney]

As already stated, Red is the preferred Colour, and concealed cabling is acceptable, as long as the cable is appropriately supported when concealed in false ceilings.

I can only suggest that you approach certified Fire Alarm Companies and STILL check out any concerns on this forum. Yesterday I looked at an installation by a reputable FA company, third party certificated, and they had installed mains powered domestic smoke alarms, installed in White FP, very nice lookng installation, linked via a relay and Zone monitor (Correctly Zoned, texted and addressed)into an addressable Fire alarm, because there was not enough capacity to add 8 new devices.

No Certificate left on site, but the original quotation confirmed it would be to BS5839 Part 1 Category L3

We maintain the FA system for the Landlord, there are 30 spare addresses on the open protocol loop, it would probably have been easier and have cost less, to do the job correctly, each device would have had text, and the new devices would be monitored for faults, shared the back up power supply with the Fire Alarm System, wouldnt need batteries changing every couple of years.....

The Mind boggles!

Well I hope you report this firm to their inspecting body and do us all a favour.

[nearlythere]

Am going to see a fire alarm system in a few days time which, I am led to believe, has been wired using flat twin and earth throughout.   This was installed by an outfit which is flying a 3rd party accreditation logo in its website and on its letterheads.

Will be an interesting visit I think.

[Graeme]

Until someone grows a pair then 3rd party accreditation carries no clout. The ones who make an effort and do things right think "whats the point"??

Sparks continue to throw in sub standard systems and i see "service" companies who do not own a test kit for detectors.