Author Topic: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE  (Read 59092 times)

Offline Tom W

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2012, 12:15:40 PM »
Maybe because you are making sod all money from your scheme they don't want to invest just yet?

Sit back and see what the take up is then decide.


Kelsall

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2012, 01:42:48 PM »
Maybe because you are making sod all money from your scheme they don't want to invest just yet?

Sit back and see what the take up is then decide.



I have no doubt the take up will be high and NSI will make lots of money from it. That’s not the point is it? £10 a cert is a good earner.

Would you sell a cheapy crappy door closer because you made loads of money on it?
Probably not, but that’s your business and you need to make a decision based on your reputation.

I had several meetings with BAFE about running the scheme/seeking equivalence and it always came down to quality not how much money the CB could make by running it. Commercially it made real sense to operate it or seek equivalence. I suppose it is about standards at the end of the day; with some companies, it’s all about the money. With some fire risk assessment companies it will be all about the path of least resistance.

Sadly I fear the whole third party issue will be judged by the lowest standard. The whole thing is a mess and shows no signs of improving in the near future.

Standardise, Simplify and Signpost. 

The RP needs it; CLG want it; the industry can’t agree on it.

Offline Tom W

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2012, 03:18:40 PM »
2 awards at the British Engineering Excellence awards and the Passive Protection Product of the year award  8)

But I won't harp on about our success story.

As you refer to price though can anyone actually tell me what the clear prices are for SP205. We know what Warringtons are but can anyone actually get a firm quote from the NSI and if this business with the certificates is true?

Would be interesting to see what happens with the prices when the other bodies offer it too.


Offline Karissa

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2012, 04:14:22 PM »
As you refer to price though can anyone actually tell me what the clear prices are for SP205. We know what Warringtons are but can anyone actually get a firm quote from the NSI and if this business with the certificates is true?

Would be interesting to see what happens with the prices when the other bodies offer it too.

Yes we got some idea of prices from NSI - equates to about £800 per day for an assessor to 'assess' you i.e. go out on site with you, then spend some time in the office. Per person. And that was for the Bronze level....

Offline colin todd

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2012, 11:29:13 AM »
Kelsall, who appointed your very good friends Warrington, with whom you seem to enjoy a close association ( a bit like yon chap Eli did- whatever happened to him?) and IFCC as the "main" certification bodies?  No doubt they have their own reasons for not wishing to run BAFE SP 205, but I very much doubt that it is anything as altrusitic as worry about the standard of the scheme!!!!! Get real.

As far the industry not being able to agree, they HAVE agreed on BAFE SP 205. It was drafted by the FIA-lest you be unaware that stands for fire INDUSTRY association. It represents about 500 firms in the fire INDUSTRY. You will also be aware that BAFE Council comprises CFOA, BRE, FIA, IFEDA, BFC, NSI, SSAIB, ECA and NICEIC (apologies to any ohter good and honourable people I have missed).  I think that represents more of an industry consensus than those certification bodies that, for whatever reason, you seem to have some sort of allegiance.  As far as NSI making a lot of money as you allege, they are non profit making and have no private shareholders to keep happy.  I think that this demonstrates an overwhleming indusry consensus.  Whether 3 CBs choose to run it or not is up to them. There will be plenty of CBs who do run it, and plenty of FRA companies who want certification under it.

Tam, SP 203-2 is on the BAFE website, so I imagine that, when SP 205-1 goes on so will SP 205-2.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline colin todd

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2012, 11:32:38 AM »
One of the several CBs that intend to run SP 205 is looking for suitable auditors, preferably with no conflict of interest in carrying out FRAs themselves on a major scale.  Does anyone know of any suitable people?
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Kelsall

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2012, 12:17:49 PM »

"No doubt they have their own reasons for not wishing to run BAFE SP 205, but I very much doubt that it is anything as altrusitic as worry about the standard of the scheme!!!!! Get real"

The meetings I have had and emails suggest that quality of the scheme is an issue for several of the major fire safety certification bodies!!! WISE UP!!

Kelsall

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2012, 12:31:46 PM »
"It was drafted by the FIA-lest you be unaware that stands for fire INDUSTRY association".

It’s been written by the industry for the industry/members and BAFE have confirmed it will be set at a level to include all the industry.

That's a recipe for robustness!

The path of least resistance; standards will rocket watch this space. WISE UP!

(content deleted by Kurnal)

your company wouldn't do a crap job just because it made you cash. Would it?

Hey, we are all entitled to our own opinion and some agree with me honest they do! But as old Eli says don't bother disagreeing with Todd he is always right.

He told me the other day you phoned him and wanted FRACS certification on the cheap!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 03:09:25 PM by kurnal »

Offline kurnal

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2012, 12:51:15 PM »
Kelsall/ Colin if you two want a personal row please use the telephone and not this forum. Thank you.

There are differences between the company schemes available and advantages and disadvantages of each, I think it is important for us all to understand the differences and make valid informed choices. So please keep objective.

Kelsall

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2012, 02:16:22 PM »
Sorry Kurnal  ::)

Sorry Colin  :-*

Sorry All ;)

Offline Tom W

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2012, 02:20:42 PM »
Opinion deleted by MOD

 :-X
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 03:39:50 PM by Piglet »

Offline colin todd

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2012, 11:34:05 PM »
Its true, I phoned Eli to find out how to contact the Warrington passive people because the website is useless.  While on the phone I did offer Eli £5 for person certification and £10 for company certification. He told me if I applied I would get the certificates by return of post.
Colin Todd, C S Todd & Associates

Offline Tom W

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2012, 10:34:23 AM »
I thought it worthwhile mentioning that before people get carried away with prices and certificate costs, no costs has been decided yet.

There may not even be a cost for the certificates and I was assured if there ever is it will NOT be £10. FACT


Offline kurnal

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2012, 11:33:09 AM »
Hi Piglet
Thanks for giving a dose of perspective.

I hope you are right but have you seen William 29s posting above (reply 21 in this thread)? He says he had a quote from NSI?

Offline Tom W

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Re: BAFE SP 205 scheme for fire risk assesment companies: WATCH THIS SPACE
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2012, 11:35:47 AM »
Hi Piglet
Thanks for giving a dose of perspective.

I hope you are right but have you seen William 29s posting above? He says he had a quote from NSI?

He will not have a quote, he will have been given a guide price. I can assure you of this. That guide price, whoever gave it to him, and when is incorrect.

Anyone is free to ring them and confirm what I have said.