Water Mist Extinguishers (Dry Water Mist)

[Tom Sutton]

It is a new one to me Water Mist Extinguishers (Dry Water Mist) all classes A-F but how do they present the instructions for use. Are all classes dealt with the same or do you use different techniques for different classes.

http://www.safelincs.co.uk/E-Series-Water-Mist-Fire-extinguishers/

[Psuedonym]

Is this the Holy Grail at last?

[Tom Sutton]

If you check out the info my first post is slightly misleading Its not all classes class D is not included.

6ltr Water Mist Fire Extinguisher - E-Series

Extinguisher Rating 13A, 21B, 75F
Can be used on class A, B, C, F and electrical fires
35kV Dielectrical test pass
BAFE approved manufacturing process
CE approved and LPCB Certified

[AnthonyB]

Is this the Holy Grail at last?

No for several reasons;

- Very poor Class B rating
- Cost, if the budget on-line outlets can't flog them for less than three figures, then other suppliers mau have to be dearer
- As evidenced by the draft part 8 the UK doesn't like using liquid extinguishers for electrical risks di-electric test pass or not.

If I wanted ABF & dielectric test capability I would use an ABF Foam/Wet Chem as it's cheaper and better rated.

I've only ever used water mist (Amerex have had mist portables for years) for specialist applications.

[Psuedonym]

Agreed, they are a tad costly and I personally wouldn't flog one as electrical protection.

Still we wait, for that day when the Gods of Portables bless us with an enviromentally (and all other pressure group satisfactory) BCF replacement...............

[TFEM]

Just because it shows the electrical icon, it doesn't mean that it can be used directly onto live electrics. The blurb says that it can be used "near" live electrics.
I'm sorry, I know the BS allows it but I won't supply any water based extinguisher showing the electrical icon until the day that water is officially classified for use on live electrics.
Call me old fashioned but training or no training, people will still get it wrong.
John

[AnthonyB]

Just because it shows the electrical icon, it doesn't mean that it can be used directly onto live electrics. The blurb says that it can be used "near" live electrics.
I'm sorry, I know the BS allows it but I won't supply any water based extinguisher showing the electrical icon until the day that water is officially classified for use on live electrics.
Call me old fashioned but training or no training, people will still get it wrong.
John

But it does, that is the point of the icon & all training material from everybody says the icons tell you what it may be used on (not near)

I am however in agreement with your reluctance to supply any 'wets' for direct use - the problem with the water and foam models that have the electrical fires is that BSI doesn't have the bottle to stop them (the makes that use this icon are all kitemarked).

On the other hand don't knock BSI too much - if we had adopted EN3 in it's original form then ALL water and foam models that have passed the di-electric test would be marked "safe for use on electrical fires up to 1000V" as is common on the continent. BS EN3 specifically keeps the British convention of not marking any wet as suitable for electrical fires, the only concession being that they don't have to say "Do not use on electrical fires" if they passed the 35kV test.

Realistically the icon should not be used, fortunately the users don't have a big market share so are rare to see.

(Quotes from the product sheets of the users of the electrically safe icon -
Ex-celsuis:
"Due to the spray foam nozzle, the extinguisher has passed the EN3 35000Volt test, meaning the user is safe if the extinguisher is used on live electrical equipment", "The water with additive is suitable for use on live electrical equipment"

Britannia Fire:
"This model has passed the requirements of BS EN3 for the suitability of being used on live electrical equipment")

[Psuedonym]

phew, that's ok then, if EN say it's ok then then that's just dandy then....    !

[Tom Sutton]

I heard today that a small 1 litre dry water mist extinguisher was considered as a replacement for halon riot police extinguishers.

As AB said they have a very poor Class B rating but how would they perform on running/spill petroleum fires.

Anybody any views?

[AnthonyB]

The 1 litre doesn't get an A or B rating and only a 5F rating being beaten by the far cheaper Jactone 600ml ABF Foam aerosol.


It's less effective than the Halon equivalent and not much cheaper, I think that Police forces ought to stick with Halon for public order. A custom 1 litre version of the high performance foam agents (that give you 34A 183B from 6 litres) is a better prospect

[The Reiver]

Actually better not knock the BSI at all. They ain't mentioned in the ad literature.
LPCB have approved these ones not BSI.

[AnthonyB]

As that quote refers to BS EN3 and products kitemarked by them & not the Jewel stuff it stands as fair comment.

[John]

Before I start, I must make it clear that I do not work for, or have any direct affiliation with any manufacturer of fire extinguishing equipment, I am, however, a customer of many differing manufacturers, as in my business, I focus on providing the best solution for the job rather than the cheapest solution.

The time has arrived, once again, where I must question the validity of our friend Mr Buck's title "Fire extinguisher expert", when he clearly does not have a clue about this subject of this thread, I'm not saying he shouldn't hold that title, I know he is very knowledgable in many areas, but in the role of an expert, IMHO, facts should be portrayed, not personal opinions, especially misinformed opinions.

In reference to the use of "wets" on live electrical items, the clue is in the title, DRY water mist.  Now I know that may seem like a contradiction in terms, but when the medium leaves the business end of the hose, that is exactly what you have, a DRY water mist.  Furthermore, I would have expected our "expert" to have known what was actually contained within this type of extinguisher, before misinforming other users of this forum who may rely on information provided by an "expert".  Many references to other manufacturers water based extinguishers have been made on this thread, and, under many circumstances those comments would be valid, if this type of unit contained water, obtained conventionally, from a tap.  The unit in question, however, does not contain tap water, it contains demineralised water, which has vastly reduced electrical conductivity than ordinary tap water, therefore making the unit in question completely safe for use ON live electrical equipment.

Have a look on YouTube, and you will see some very impressive videos from the manufacturer of this unit, (that is a clue for what to search for), you will see this type of unit used on several classes of fire, including direct use ON live electrical equipment.

My personal opinion on this unit is that it could easily be the future of portable extinguishing, and OK, the B rating is low, but in general day to day life, how often are fire extinguishers supplied for B class risks ?

[AnthonyB]

I've watched al the videos and the literature & know that it is an innovative technology thank you very much.

Nothing I have said is wrong as BS5306-8 would still class it as a liquid based extinguisher, which it is, albeit with a mist discharge that is deemed to be 'dry'.

Note though that Amerex have produced a similar extinguisher for over a decade, similar in that it uses deionised water, discharges as a mist and can be used directly on life electrical equipment, having a Class C approval in the US (which under the UL classification system is live electrical equipment fires as they include flammables gases in their Class B).

And as the cost of traditional extinguishers stays low and most customers just want the cheapest tool for the job then it will not be the future of portable extinguishing unless the price drops considerably - you are privileged in being one of the few customers where money is no object.

I would agree that foam is over used and Class B ratings aren't always needed, but thats why water spray is being pushed more  - which in some makes is also approved for direct use up to 1000V at far less money.

[TFEM]

.....and how likely is the price of a water mist unit going to drop when the manufacturers are producing one unit to do the same job that has always been done by two extinguishers. What business in their right mind is going to halve their turnover/profit? How much has the price of a wet chemical extinguisher come down over the last 10 years?
John