Competent trainer

[lingmoor]

The RRO defines competent as where someone who has sufficient training and experience and knowledge etc

now under Article 21 Training...it doesn't mention the trainer has to be competent, just that employees are provided with 'adequate' training...and that could be open ended

the reason I bring this up is that a hospital in my patch has a fire safety advisor who gives all staff their mandatory training, but when he is off, due to sickness, leave etc they have the guy who does moving and handling instruction take the fire training. He has sat in on several fire sessions and picked up the gist.

What is your opinion on this? Do you think trainers should be competent as defined in the RRO?

[nearlythere]

The RRO defines competent as where someone who has sufficient training and experience and knowledge etc

now under Article 21 Training...it doesn't mention the trainer has to be competent, just that employees are provided with 'adequate' training...and that could be open ended

the reason I bring this up is that a hospital in my patch has a fire safety advisor who gives all staff their mandatory training, but when he is off, due to sickness, leave etc they have the guy who does moving and handling instruction take the fire training. He has sat in on several fire sessions and picked up the gist.

What is your opinion on this? Do you think trainers should be competent as defined in the RRO?

Lots of very open ended words involved in this Lingmoor. Sufficient is one of them. My view is that if your have someone who is experienced in delivering health and safety instructions then, with some research and sitting in experience, he should be able to deliver fire safety training because all it is or should be is hospital policies and procedures. It isn't rocket science after all. In my former life I attended the FSC and for three weeks sat through a Brigade Instructors Course. I was not taught everything and I did not learn everything to enable me to teach anything to everyone but I have a certificate, issued by the Home Office, that states that after sufficient research I am competent to instruct anyone on any issue I am competent to do, or something like that. It was mainly a long course on Methods of Instruction with the odd visit to town.
But I can tell you that in the practical assessment I was brilliant.

[lingmoor]

nearlythere...if it was in the 90's I could have been on your course   

Thanks for your reply

[Midland Retty]

Very good question, and alas one thats not straight forward to answer Lingmoor.

The answer should be simple, but thanks to the way the Order is written it isn't. My take is this; to be effective, training should be delivered by someone competent in the subject matter being taught, otherwise what is the point of that training?

Going back to the fellow who deputises for the main instructor - does sitting in on a few of the courses mean that he is competent? or has simply learnt the presentation parrot fashion, without truly understand the content?

And how would you know? You could quiz the chap to get a feel for his knowledge, but how else would you guage it without perhaps sitting in on one of his courses?

[nearlythere]

Very good question, and alas one thats not straight forward to answer Lingmoor.

The answer should be simple, but thanks to the way the Order is written it isn't. My take is this; to be effective, training should be delivered by someone competent in the subject matter being taught, otherwise what is the point of that training?

Going back to the fellow who deputises for the main instructor - does sitting in on a few of the courses mean that he is competent? or has simply learnt the presentation parrot fashion, without truly understand the content?

And how would you know? You could quiz the chap to get a feel for his knowledge, but how else would you guage it without perhaps sitting in on one of his courses?

But it is parrot fashion stuff MR. If you are training someone on the use of an extinguisher all that is necessary to get across is how to use the right extinguisher for the right fire - safely. Not much else is relevant. That is as much as is necessary to satisfy the legislation on fire extinguisher training. Remember that these people are not studying for a qualification on everything to do with a fire extinguisher from how it is made through to how it is disposed of.  It is just basic point and press at a fire stuff. with some safety bits in between.

How some of us have saved the country from the evils of fire by our experiences or others by sitting in a classroom is very interesting but not at all necessary.

[Midland Retty]

I was playing devils advocate. Regardless of what subject matter is being delivered the person delivering the training has to be competent in the subject they are pitching, whether that be how to operate a fire extinguisher, or how to design and build a rocket engine. As I said before if not then what is the point of training if the instruction you are receiving is simply innacurate or wrong?

For example take your fella deputising for the main instructor. Im not saying he needs a degree in fire engineering, but you have to question, especially as this is a hopsital, what level of fire safety training is given, and, subsequently, what levels of competency is required of the trainer in order to give correct instruction. You then have to say is learning from the lead instructor parrot fashion adequate? It probably would be for basic stuff, but for more indepth subject matter it may not be.

[nearlythere]

I was playing devils advocate. Regardless of what subject matter is being delivered the person delivering the training has to be competent in the subject they are pitching, whether that be how to operate a fire extinguisher, or how to design and build a rocket engine. As I said before if not then what is the point of training if the instruction you are receiving is simply innacurate or wrong?

For example take your fella deputising for the main instructor. Im not saying he needs a degree in fire engineering, but you have to question, especially as this is a hopsital, what level of fire safety training is given, and, subsequently, what levels of competency is required of the trainer in order to give correct instruction. You then have to say is learning from the lead instructor parrot fashion adequate? It probably would be for basic stuff, but for more indepth subject matter it may not be.

I kinda agree if you are saying that the trainer just has to be competent on specifically what he has to deliver. If I was to train you to peel an orange would it matter that I did not know how or where they were grown, the chemical make up of the juice and how to calculate the volume. I'm an expert at peeling them but I know nothing about the other bits. But I only want to train you how to peel it.

[Midland Retty]

Absolutely NT  If I only need to know how to peel the orange I don't need to know the other bits you listed.

[nearlythere]

Like I was just about to start my Discrimination in the Workplace presentation the other day when one of the female members of staff came in.
"Sorry" I said. "This one's for the boy's only. There's a dumbed down version for the girls a bit later on"
She apologised most profusely and left.
Strange how some things you can get away with.

[kurnal]

And then she came back with your P45 in her hand.

[nearlythere]

Because she was the new boss of HR.

[jokar]

Or the existing boss of HR that kept it and had no opay rise to be the CFO as well!