Domestic smoke alarms on pay-as-you-go meter

[lyledunn]

How things can get out of hand when standards are not crystal clear; I have just learned that the hmo licensing authority is prosecuting the landlord for not removing the pre-payment meter as required in their notice to him. The case is this Tuesday so I will keep you posted on the outcome.

[kurnal]

I hope the landlord appoints someone competent to represent them so that all sides of the argument are adequately explored. Legal precedent is needed- but it should be based on a fully rounded argument. Sounds like a job for Toddy.

[colin todd]

I, myself will be in Northern Ireland next week, so look forward to hearing about the case.

Thanks for the plug Big Al......... I can see the strapline in the Belfast Telegraph already.....

"From the producers of heat detectors in hotel bedrooms and no need to retrofit intumescent strips and smoke seals all over the place, fresh from their latest successful determination, CSTA proudly present....... smoke alarms connected to pre-payment meters.......Now showing at a Courtroom near you."

It has a certain ring to it, I will admit, Big Al.

[nearlythere]

Is there something here which would be relevant to emergency lighting fed from prepay meters as well?

[Dinnertime Dave]

Is there something here which would be relevant to emergency lighting fed from prepay meters as well?

Sorry nearlythere am I missing something. Why would escape lighting be on the residents pre pay meter?

[Golden]

Although not normal practice I am told that some lighting in smaller blocks is fed from one of the tenant supplies and they are compensated by the housing management for the use and inconvenience so there is a possibility of EL being affected.

[nearlythere]

Is there something here which would be relevant to emergency lighting fed from prepay meters as well?

Sorry nearlythere am I missing something. Why would escape lighting be on the residents pre pay meter?

I'm thinking about student accommodation, digs not halls, where landlords might be concerned about occupants doing a bunk with unpaid bills or prepaid meters installed as a preference for occupiers especially for students who hate large quarterly bills.

[Dinnertime Dave]

Is there something here which would be relevant to emergency lighting fed from prepay meters as well?

Sorry nearlythere am I missing something. Why would escape lighting be on the residents pre pay meter?

I'm thinking about student accommodation, digs not halls, where landlords might be concerned about occupants doing a bunk with unpaid bills or prepaid meters installed as a preference for occupiers especially for students who hate large quarterly bills.

Point taken, not come across that situation myself - It is Friday

[Midland Retty]

Nearlythere

I've come acrossa few HMOs where the supply for the EL has been taken from the tenants supply which is a bit naughty.

Back to the court case mentioned above - I think I am right in stating that a notice from the Housing Authority is similar to those issued by a Fire Authority in so far as failing to comply with a notice is a straight forward black / white offence. The landlord should have appealed the notice before the whole matter got to court. In other words the offence is failing to comply with a notice, and not about the technical aspects / improvements detailed in the notice.

I think the housing authority are probably justified in their actions, but equally I hope they allowed the landlord reasonable time to comply!
 

[AnthonyB]

Resurrecting an old thread here but.....

The above discussion relating to Grade D devices in flats being off pre payment meters is useful, but what do you all think of the below situation:

2 flats above a shop, each flat had an Grade D:LD3 system off it's consumer unit's lighting circuit, in turn off a pre payment meter. This is dealt with in BS5839-6 and the above.

However there is no landlords supply to the common areas and the stairway lighting and door entry system is fed off the 1st floor flats pre payment meter and main switches.

A BS5839-1 conventional system to L3 has been installed for full evac as per LACORS covering the stair and with HD to each flat lobby - this is also off the first floor tenant's pre payment meter and every time it runs out (more common after the alarm was installed as consumption has risen and no compensation is paid) the panel goes into fault (and runs off batteries).

This can't be good for the batteries and also raises the concern of if the first floor go on holiday for a week or two and let the meter run out - the panel will die and the communal system be out of action (you could argue no electricity does mean the risk of fire whilst empty is minimised...).

Worse still the stair relies on artificial light so EL is being considered which will be subject to the same issue.....

Whilst the providers master incoming supply and fuse is easily accessed I dread to think what the cost would be of laying in a new circuit, fuse and consumer unit to cover the common stair flight, EL & fire alarm would be.

What would you suggest?

The 1st floor flat is looking at being allowed to go onto a standard meter and payment plan anyway and as long as they get an allowance for the common usage whilst not perfect this would at least ensure a continual supply to the common life safety systems unless they really got into difficulty - or would you want a totally new common supply?

[Owain]

However there is no landlords supply to the common areas and the stairway lighting and door entry system is fed off the 1st floor flats pre payment meter and main switches.
Whilst the providers master incoming supply and fuse is easily accessed I dread to think what the cost would be of laying in a new circuit, fuse and consumer unit to cover the common stair flight, EL & fire alarm would be.

Probably not that much, if the supplier can add to the existing service intake without a new main in from the street.

A new supply in from the street might be a couple of thousand.

An alternative if it's a rented property is to take the supply meter back into the landlord's area, the landlord to take the account over and have a credit meter, and then resell electricity to the tenant(s) through credit or prepayment sub-meters.